White 2010 GRiSO 1200 SE

Paint looks unmolested which is good.

There's a lot of oily mank on the the terurn spring. That's dripped out of the throttle spindle bush. That might just be that the engine has been over filled. It may also mean that the tappets are in an advanced state of degradation.

Pete Roper wrote:

Paint looks unmolested which is good.

There's a lot of oily mank on the the terurn spring. That's dripped out of the throttle spindle bush. That might just be that the engine has been over filled. It may also mean that the tappets are in an advanced state of degradation.

Knowing my luck at 18k miles advanced degradation, already decided would truck it home and strip it.
Am thinking his mechanic picked up on it last service and advised him to sell it, evidently he dont like guzzis anyway. I noticed how quick he was to kill the engine barely letting it tickover and do a decent walkaround.
Its done under 200 miles since the begining of November last year, though that said lots and lots of GRiSO owners do very little mileage. A sunday bimble.
Maybe am just being paranoid.
Engine over filled?
Unless these engines vent the heads to atmosphere which I highly doubt, more likely the airbox, then head gases are recycled into the inlet.
I would imagine a proportion of that goop ends up getting everywhere on its way to the combustion chamber? Could quite easily be that.
Your the man you know what goes on with that shit. Certainly be something I'd want to hit on later on head breathers and venting.

The sump is too small. The blow-by is vented to a collection box under the headstock, and then the "gas" is vented back to the airbox. The collector is only 500ml, and is easily overtaxed. The "gas" is usually oil mist. The solution is simple. Don't put too much oil in the sump. When you do an oil change (and you will be flushing the sump and galleries when you rollerise), pre-fill the oil filter, then put exactly 3 litres of oil in. End result? No more oil in airbox. Or throttle bodies.

beetle wrote:

The sump is too small. The blow-by is vented to a collection box under the headstock, and then the "gas" is vented back to the airbox. The collector is only 500ml, and is easily overtaxed. The "gas" is usually oil mist. The solution is simple. Don't put too much oil in the sump. When you do an oil change (and you will be flushing the sump and galleries when you rollerise), pre-fill the oil filter, then put exactly 3 litres of oil in. End result? No more oil in airbox. Or throttle bodies.

I like that idea about a collection box, I completely understand that explanation better. Dont overfill the engine no excessive blowby, the only blowby you should get is condensation and a little bit of oily gas. Any way to eliminate the oily gas as well to stop it going back into the engine? its not needed surely.

Throttlebodies.

No touchee screw.

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High speed balance screw on bell crank.

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Air bleed screws.

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Buellbloke wrote:

Any way to eliminate the oily gas as well to stop it going back into the engine? its not needed surely.

If there's the "just right" amount of oil in the sump, the excess blow-by mist entering the airbox is minuscule, and nothing to be concerned about. It's supposed to be burned in the combustion chamber for environmental reasons. There's a drain from the collector box to the sump for any excess liquid oil.

There is a fair amount of oil expelled through the breather system as evidenced by the fact that if the breather or return hoses, or the condom, become cracked what looks like a veritable tsunami of oil can coat the bike.

Oil though is a lot like blood. A little can look like a lot!

Generally speaking the breather system works well enough. Problems arise if the crankcase is over filled and the 'Full' mark on the stick is way too much. If the engine is run, especially at elevated revs, windage from the crank will whip up the oil in the sump and you end up with far more oil particulates in the expelled gas than if the oil is further from the crank.

Despite their being centrifugal separators on the back of the cam sprockets to try and encourage the oil droplets to stick to the inside of the heads and rocker covers if the particulate level is high and the crankcase pressure elevated by the larger than necessary volume of oil in the case the amount expelled into the condensor box may overwhelm the box's ability to contain the oil and return it to the sump.

When that occurs the excess gets pumped into the airbox where it sits in a gooey lake just below the inlet runners and invariably some of the particulate mess will get drawn through the TB's and stepper hindering their ability to function correctly.

Because of their 90* and shared crankpin configuration the volume of the crankcase varies by about 60% of the swept volume of the motor every revolution. This, coupled with the blow-by, means there is a whole lotta pumpin' going on and again bit of gas throughput in the rebreather system. This will cause no problem at all as long as the gas is basically free of oil particulates and as Mark sez if you keep the level in the 'Goldilocks' zone you'll have no problems.

Where that zone is will vary from bike to bike due to ring seal and how the bike is ridden but basically never fill it more than half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' marks on the stick and don't add any more until it drops off the stick. Somewhere between that half way mark and the bottom of the stick it will stop loosing/using oil. Mark that point and that is your new 'Full' mark. Don't keep topping it up. That's the worst thing you can do. It's got plenty of oil in it. It won't start squeaking. Leave it alone.

Let me know the name of his mechanic. I know most of them in this area. Some very good, some not so good.

So I get the whole overfilling the engine, lots of bikes prefer half way up the dipstick to allow for heat expansion, though as Pete says fill the filter and put 3 litres in sorted.
I also get that the breather hoses need to be in good nick as a little oil goes a very long way.
I might add that anything to do with emissions is bollocks applied to vehicles to surmount the woes on the environment. Bypass everything.
So from experience most of that blowby is water condensation and a tiny bit of oil mist when the correct levels of oil are used. your saying the creamy goop (oil and water mixed) is recyled into the sump as over flow? Are GRiSO's different in the blowby that they vent?

Matey took his bike to his mechanic a one Lewis Reynolds of Reynold Motorcycles, Castle Garage, Castle Street. Wroxham, Norwich, NR12 8AB.
I informed him what was needed even sent him the picture of the two heads old and new flat and roller. His answer was his mechanic would know what to photograph. This is what I got doh!
How useless is that, all I have to go on is the amount of alloy used in construction of the two parts around the area the followers sit.
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Not rollerised.


The grounding tang is a dead giveaway.

And no cutaway on the rockers.

beetle wrote:

Not rollerised.

The grounding tang is a dead giveaway.

Am becoming increasingly concerned as he reckoned he took his bike to a Lewis Reynolds this morning his mechanic and got it photgraphed,
only I just spoke to Lewis and he claimed he's not seen him in over a year.
So a question as the bike is running like the video below its not a terminal completey f*cked engine? A rollerisation from that point will ensure its sorted?
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If you're not scared off by the fact the seller's pants have clearly burst into flame, I would be seriously considering inspecting the big ends.

beetle wrote:

If you're not scared off by the fact the seller's pants have clearly burst into flame, I would be seriously considering inspecting the big ends.

What makes you say the big ends need attention?
The seller has other bikes and has owned the GRiSO for 6 years, he reckons he just got nicked for speeding on his yam R1 and is lookingto downgrade his collection.
By all accounts he doesnt seem to be mechanically minded but who really knows.
If its not just sorting the followers then am not interested as investigating the big ends moves the goal post in terms of value and purchase.
I dont want spend my first months of ownership on trying to fix a complete dog having never even ridden the thing.

Well we'll have to disagree about the benefits of anti pollution measures.

The point of having a condensor box is precisely that. To allow the expelled particulate matter in the gas to condense and return to the engine. One of the important factors of keeping the oil temperature above 96*C is that at that point the water will sublime off and pass through the breather system as a gas. The 8V not having an oil thermostat does run very cool. Far too cool in cold and temperate climates, but while this seems to cause little or no damage as long as oil change intervals are observed scrupulously there are a couple of folks here who have gone to the trouble of fitting a thermostat to combat water build up in the engine.

The blow by gasses are expelled through two hoses from the cam sprocket covers on the back of the heads. They go to the condensor box where liquids condense and are returned to the sump. Any water in gas form passes through the condensor and on to the airbox where it is ingested into the combustion chambers and expelled out of the exhaust. As long as the oil temperature remains above that sublimation point there is no concern about it being in the oil. It will, in effect, boil off and be expelled. It's not like your sump will fill up with water. Although if you live in a cool climate and only take short trips, never getting the oil hot, you will end up with water in the sump. Since the pick-ups for the oil pumps are above the floor of the sump though this doesn't seem to be an issue and certainly any water that goes through the cooling circuit will get a rude shock when it goes past the exhaust valve seats!

Mark, the rockers aren't the issue. When you rollerise you re-use the original rockers so Gen 1 rockers do not preclude rollerisation. You can though clearly see that circular indent in the cambox casting between the rockers. If it had been rollerised the new cambox would have been machined for the much wider roller tappets and the size of the bores for the tappets intrude into that circular mark on the casting. The cambox itself is of the early, single plug, design and while some of the very early rollerisation kits were made by re-machining single plug camboxes the vast majority are based on the twin plug Cali 14 items.

So this one is definitely a flattie. I seem to remember it's done about 18,000 miles? If so it will likely be well on the way and hence the low idle at start up and need for throttle goosing to make it sound palatable.

To answer your question to Mark? When the DLC comes off it will float around in the oil. Most of it will get taken out by the filter, (Although not before having gone through the oil pumps.). When the oil is cold it is not uncommon for the oil filter to go into bypass as the oil is simply too viscous to pass through the filter medium at the required flow rate. If this occurs the DLC particles will pass through to the main bearings and on to the big ends. Particulate contamination of both the mains and big ends, (But it will be the big ends that go first.) will eventually destroy the integrity of the bearings and the ability of the oil to form a wedge. Then the motor starts making the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise.

You don't want to hear the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. That's what happened to my first motor. Most vexing.

Useful read for dodgy engines...

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Pete Roper wrote:

Well we'll have to disagree about the benefits of anti pollution measures.

The point of having a condensor box is precisely that. To allow the expelled particulate matter in the gas to condense and return to the engine. One of the important factors of keeping the oil temperature above 96*C is that at that point the water will sublime off and pass through the breather system as a gas. The 8V not having an oil thermostat does run very cool. Far too cool in cold and temperate climates, but while this seems to cause little or no damage as long as oil change intervals are observed scrupulously there are a couple of folks here who have gone to the trouble of fitting a thermostat to combat water build up in the engine.

The blow by gasses are expelled through two hoses from the cam sprocket covers on the back of the heads. They go to the condensor box where liquids condense and are returned to the sump. Any water in gas form passes through the condensor and on to the airbox where it is ingested into the combustion chambers and expelled out of the exhaust. As long as the oil temperature remains above that sublimation point there is no concern about it being in the oil. It will, in effect, boil off and be expelled. It's not like your sump will fill up with water. Although if you live in a cool climate and only take short trips, never getting the oil hot, you will end up with water in the sump. Since the pick-ups for the oil pumps are above the floor of the sump though this doesn't seem to be an issue and certainly any water that goes through the cooling circuit will get a rude shock when it goes past the exhaust valve seats!

Mark, the rockers aren't the issue. When you rollerise you re-use the original rockers so Gen 1 rockers do not preclude rollerisation. You can though clearly see that circular indent in the cambox casting between the rockers. If it had been rollerised the new cambox would have been machined for the much wider roller tappets and the size of the bores for the tappets intrude into that circular mark on the casting. The cambox itself is of the early, single plug, design and while some of the very early rollerisation kits were made by re-machining single plug camboxes the vast majority are based on the twin plug Cali 14 items.

So this one is definitely a flattie. I seem to remember it's done about 18,000 miles? If so it will likely be well on the way and hence the low idle at start up and need for throttle goosing to make it sound palatable.

To answer your question to Mark? When the DLC comes off it will float around in the oil. Most of it will get taken out by the filter, (Although not before having gone through the oil pumps.). When the oil is cold it is not uncommon for the oil filter to go into bypass as the oil is simply too viscous to pass through the filter medium at the required flow rate. If this occurs the DLC particles will pass through to the main bearings and on to the big ends. Particulate contamination of both the mains and big ends, (But it will be the big ends that go first.) will eventually destroy the integrity of the bearings and the ability of the oil to form a wedge. Then the motor starts making the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise.

You don't want to hear the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise. That's what happened to my first motor. Most vexing.

Thanx for your enormous help Pete but the rest of your forum crew as well as yourself really have killed my enthusiasm for this 2008 GRiSO 1200. Unless of course I can get it for 3 grand instead of the £4500 asking
Otherwise thats me done am not buying that f*cker Seems to me the 1100's for sale dissapear quite fast, the 1200's between 2007 - 2012 sit and no body goes near them, unless they are clueless about Guzzis and or are not mechanicallly minded. The late 2013's - 2015's are the ones to buy without major issues. Or any of the early ones where the work has been done.
The white GRiSO 1200 that this thread was about makes no mention of the the rollerisation being done.
Evidently you guys know this person as he is a member of the forum so hows about this one? Done not not done.

I don't know! I don't have a personal insight into every GRiSO on the planet. Not even who owns what on this board. Some of my friends and customers and their bikes I know but they are all in Oz and a few in the US.

I applaud you for performing due diligence prior to purchase. This is something that is frequently overlooked and then new owners seem to take it as a personal affront that nobody told them about the flat tappet fiasco before they laid their money down. Conversely though you can't expect someone on the other side of the world to say "Sure Mate! That one is a dead-set gem! Buy it now!".

There is a wealth of information available on this board about not just the flat tappet fiasco and the risks or otherwise of addressing it. Also all the other common niggles and weak points have been discussed at length in the technical sections of the board. Grisos, indeed Guzzis in general, are no more or less reliable than any other manufacturers products. They all have their issues. It's just that the Piaggio bean counters shat the bed badly with the flat tappet top end. Once rectified the motors are generally reliable. I have several customers whose bikes I or Michael have rebuilt at or around 200,000km who, apart from rollerisation and preventative maintenance, have never missed a beat.

What you need to do is read and learn about what to look out for and then make your own decision on purchase. Neither I or anyone else is able to do that for you. When purchasing an 8V Guzzi the flat tappet issue does have to be front and centre of any decision and should you go ahead with a purchase fixing it. Fixing it, if it hasn't already been done, should be factored into the price and the lower the mileage on the bike the better as it is less likely that subsequent damage will of had time to manifest itself. If you have doubts the only way to know for certain that the bike has been rollerised is to look. There is no crystal ball that can be gazed into to allow one to know and the waters were muddied by the previous recall for the swap from cast iron tappets to steel ones so one has to look with ones own peepers at the inside of a cambox. If owners won't oblige? Walk away. Eventually you will find the correct bike. Alternatively buy a 2013-on model and pay the premium for not having to worry about it. Simples.

Pete Roper wrote:

I don't know! I don't have a personal insight into every GRiSO on the planet. Not even who owns what on this board. Some of my friends and customers and their bikes I know but they are all in Oz and a few in the US.

I applaud you for performing due diligence prior to purchase. This is something that is frequently overlooked and then new owners seem to take it as a personal affront that nobody told them about the flat tappet fiasco before they laid their money down. Conversely though you can't expect someone on the other side of the world to say "Sure Mate! That one is a dead-set gem! Buy it now!".

There is a wealth of information available on this board about not just the flat tappet fiasco and the risks or otherwise of addressing it. Also all the other common niggles and weak points have been discussed at length in the technical sections of the board. Grisos, indeed Guzzis in general, are no more or less reliable than any other manufacturers products. They all have their issues. It's just that the Piaggio bean counters shat the bed badly with the flat tappet top end. Once rectified the motors are generally reliable. I have several customers whose bikes I or Michael have rebuilt at or around 200,000km who, apart from rollerisation and preventative maintenance, have never missed a beat.

What you need to do is read and learn about what to look out for and then make your own decision on purchase. Neither I or anyone else is able to do that for you. When purchasing an 8V Guzzi the flat tappet issue does have to be front and centre of any decision and should you go ahead with a purchase fixing it. Fixing it, if it hasn't already been done, should be factored into the price and the lower the mileage on the bike the better as it is less likely that subsequent damage will of had time to manifest itself. If you have doubts the only way to know for certain that the bike has been rollerised is to look. There is no crystal ball that can be gazed into to allow one to know and the waters were muddied by the previous recall for the swap from cast iron tappets to steel ones so one has to look with ones own peepers at the inside of a cambox. If owners won't oblige? Walk away. Eventually you will find the correct bike. Alternatively buy a 2013-on model and pay the premium for not having to worry about it. Simples.

Sorry meant that ask about the White GRiSO 1200 to all and sundry, as most active users are watching most new posts certainly your posts  
At least now am suitably armed with some extra knowlege, like asking about the throttle body factory preset adjustmet screw and checking the paint is intact.
I wont indulge another high miler unless its rediculously cheap, that said I move fast already posted a PM to Mr Midlifecrisis and telephoned the number and left a message.

Just got to work out how to let the other bloke down and obtain my tiny deposit back. Used to encourage the rocker removal.

I missed out on a 2015 Black Devil with 3455 miles or there abouts £7k, it had 3 owners, and 3 services and not one of them could sort the solenoid issue it had from almost day one.
Bike was a non starter, tidy obviously except for one of the black cosmetic stripes had bubbled and fractured on the tank.
Was really shocked to find the stripes on those bikes are thick stickers.
Would have needed at least a £500 deposit and hoped my bike sold within a month. In the end he part exed it with Churchill Motorcycles who sell a lot of premium GRiSO 1200 examples.
He took a £600 hit so went for £6400 against another bike. A week later Churchill took the aftermarket exhaust off, replaced it with the original and have it in for £9K.

Here is a really shitty clip I did this morning at the workshop of a start-up of the written off shitter. I was hoping to get the initial start so you could hear the distinctive rattle of the camchain tensioners priming but I had an issue with my starter pack, (Bike's battery is pretty flat and it's as cold as buggery today.) and it kicked over and stalled but those few revolutions were enough to prime the tensioners. I'll endeavour to get a better vid in the next few days.

Note that since I got it, apart from repairing the damage to its front end,(Which was minimal.) swapping out the horrid right hand exhaust and shoe-burning device for a proper pretzel and a Mistral Low-pipe and sticking another map in it I've done nothing to the motor. It hasn't been tuned, valves haven't been checked and throttlebodies haven't been balanced.

Due to the lack of dB killer in the pipe I opted to use the Mistral Hi-Pipe/No dB killer map as a stopgap until I can purchase or make a suitable dB killer. This, along with the unknown state of tune, explains the slightly low idle although with the map it came with the idle with this pipe was struggling to top 800 rpm and wouldn't reliably idle until warm. It must of been as rich as Croesus!

As it is as soon as it fired up it settled into a pretty steady 1100 rpm idle which shows the stepper is doing its job although the low idle implies there is still too much fuel. Could also be that if I tuned it properly it would run like a Swiss watch!





While clearly indicating the near impossibility of doing any diagnostic work from YouTube vids one thing the crappy iPhone mike does pick up quite well is the distinctive 'Whickering' noise that roller top ends generally make. A marked contrast to the 'Drunk rolling dustbins down the street' noise of the early flat tappet machines or the almost eerie quietness of the later ones with the shimmed camshafts. It is also noteworthy that flat tappet engines don't, as a rule, make the 'Priming cam chain tensioner' rattle on cold start up and while it's not a definitive indicator if it does it, it is a good pointer that the motor is likely to have been rollerised.

[/quote]

Snip
Evidently you guys know this person as he is a member of the forum so hows about this one? Done not not done.[/quote]

It may not be Midlifecrisis's bike, given he lives in Cuckfield and this one is in Hassocks. Different towns. There's more than one white GRiSO about.

Pete Roper wrote:

Here is a really shitty clip I did this morning at the workshop of a start-up of the written off shitter. I was hoping to get the initial start so you could hear the distinctive rattle of the camchain tensioners priming but I had an issue with my starter pack, (Bike's battery is pretty flat and it's as cold as buggery today.) and it kicked over and stalled but those few revolutions were enough to prime the tensioners. I'll endeavour to get a better vid in the next few days.

Note that since I got it, apart from repairing the damage to its front end,(Which was minimal.) swapping out the horrid right hand exhaust and shoe-burning device for a proper pretzel and a Mistral Low-pipe and sticking another map in it I've done nothing to the motor. It hasn't been tuned, valves haven't been checked and throttlebodies haven't been balanced.

Due to the lack of dB killer in the pipe I opted to use the Mistral Hi-Pipe/No dB killer map as a stopgap until I can purchase or make a suitable dB killer. This, along with the unknown state of tune, explains the slightly low idle although with the map it came with the idle with this pipe was struggling to top 800 rpm and wouldn't reliably idle until warm. It must of been as rich as Croesus!

As it is as soon as it fired up it settled into a pretty steady 1100 rpm idle which shows the stepper is doing its job although the low idle implies there is still too much fuel. Could also be that if I tuned it properly it would run like a Swiss watch!

While clearly indicating the near impossibility of doing any diagnostic work from YouTube vids one thing the crappy iPhone mike does pick up quite well is the distinctive 'Whickering' noise that roller top ends generally make. A marked contrast to the 'Drunk rolling dustbins down the street' noise of the early flat tappet machines or the almost eerie quietness of the later ones with the shimmed camshafts. It is also noteworthy that flat tappet engines don't, as a rule, make the 'Priming cam chain tensioner' rattle on cold start up and while it's not a definitive indicator if it does it, it is a good pointer that the motor is likely to have been rollerised.

Problem with most mobile devices is they mute the big sounds and enhance the tiny sounds, playback on them is worse. Its only once the vid is uploaded or transferred to a desktop and decent speakers it sounds better.
I see you have one of them ugly green things with the brown seat, cant see what all the fuss is about, its an early first SE the ugliest f*cker out there  

Papa Lazarou wrote:

It may not be Midlifecrisis's bike, given he lives in Cuckfield and this one is in Hassocks. Different towns. There's more than one white GRiSO about.

Regardless belled the blokes only landline form of communication, even left an answerphone message. Sent Midlifecrisis a PM via the Ghetto if its his bike, though he's not had involvment since early last year.
Maybe he's lurkling and seen this thead, knows who I am and is avoiding me. His bike is of that age where ghetto joiners realise what they have and get rid of them sharpish.

I've decided maybe just maybe I can stretch to a Red Devil, it has 15k miles and is in for the typical £8k these later bikes are fetching. I'll prob try and flog the original pipe on here though can't imagine any one wanting it. Swaps for a Carbon Mistral would be nice like the one you have on that green thing Pete  

So Pete whats to be done on the later 2015 bikes apart from greasing the swingarm, swapping out the map and upgrading the solenoid starter switch wire? Heard stuff about ECM swaps somewhere? Papa Lazarou mentioned a Stelvio shock to increase an inch and counter an inch lower foot rest relocation kit.

This is my ugly big self sitting on the bike a few weeks ago.
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Tenni green Grisos are an acquired taste. I personally like the colour scheme but 'The Shitter' got that bodywork simply because I had it on the shelf, I like it, and also the Shitter had the Baboon's Arse seat that only its previous owner could love!

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By the time of the last run all of the problems had been basically ironed out. You get the Cali 14 sump and filter set-up but that is really the only difference I can think of offhand. Yes, they'll still have un-greased bearings but apart from that sort of build quality screw up they are pretty solid.

The stock pipe actually works well, but it's very heavy and it's appearance is an acquired taste. The Mistral Hi-Pipe is the one that has the most highly developed maps by Mark and the only one that he's built a specific No dBk, Noisy Moron map for as far as I know. There are maps available for both the Low Oval and Low Tapered pipes. All CARC bikes use the W5AM ECU. There are a variety of plug-ins and add-ons available. None of them are as effective as a properly built map and some of them are downright dangerous. the W5AM has been an open book for a decade. Plug ins and add-ons are a foolish and often expensive option.

Pete Roper wrote:

Tenni green Grisos are an acquired taste. I personally like the colour scheme but 'The Shitter' got that bodywork simply because I had it on the shelf, I like it, and also the Shitter had the Baboon's Arse seat that only its previous owner could love!

By the time of the last run all of the problems had been basically ironed out. You get the Cali 14 sump and filter set-up but that is really the only difference I can think of offhand. Yes, they'll still have un-greased bearings but apart from that sort of build quality screw up they are pretty solid.

The stock pipe actually works well, but it's very heavy and it's appearance is an acquired taste. The Mistral Hi-Pipe is the one that has the most highly developed maps by Mark and the only one that he's built a specific No dBk, Noisy Moron map for as far as I know. There are maps available for both the Low Oval and Low Tapered pipes. All CARC bikes use the W5AM ECU. There are a variety of plug-ins and add-ons available. None of them are as effective as a properly built map and some of them are downright dangerous. the W5AM has been an open book for a decade. Plug ins and add-ons are a foolish and often expensive option.

Am only teasing I dont mind the Tenni Green, wouldnt say no to one converted if it was plenty cheaper than £8k
Mistral Hi-Pipe seems hard to source in the Uk seems an order only item everywhere. Would defo get a Beetle map for it, Noisy Moron sounds right up my street
So applying these maps does it require a specific cable? some form of propietary software and the use of a laptop I imagine?

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And research the forum.

Pete Roper wrote:

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And research the forum.

Spotted a facebook page with pictures of actual bikes and the maps beetle supplies linked via paypal.
Cant save it though cus facebook got hacked and now they wont let me do anything, even though its their fault.

Got hold of bloke with White 1200 SE altered GRiSO 10k miles for £5K, has the spoked wheels, black headlight and dash nacells, black mirrors. One of those ultra rare belly pans in matching white or just unpainted, is it rare am sure I've seen similar elewhere could be wrong.
He's not off the Ghetto, that said I forgot to ask and he made no mention when I mentioned it, had bike a while dont know if its been rollerised.
He can basic spanner do oil changes, he's going to have a look and photograph.
Sent him all the relevant info, picture of the flats and rollers, where to look under cover, including tools to remove cover and your youtube video of the top end rocker tear down.
Its got a genuine Piaggio Termigoni, massive thing sure to find a swap for that  
Not a fan of carbon protectors or blacked rocker covers though both an easy fix unless is damage under the carbon cover/s.

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