White 2010 GRiSO 1200 SE

Sold my harley fatbob took a month and for the advert to end for every man and his dog to jump at once. Some bloke Mick paid me a £500 deposit bike unseen except pics, think he wins it!

So I've seen a White GRiSO 1200 claimed SE just north of Brighton, its got spoke wheels, black nacells on the dash and headlight instead of chrome. For some reason the rocker covers are completely black except for the spark plug covers. It has carbon covers on the edge and leading corner of the rocker covers, are these things "A thing"? Seen someone repair crash damage with carbon on the rocker covers on this forum. Also saw another now gone black 2010 I think, GRiSO 1200 with these carbon protectors. Do they hint at damage or are they just a form of head scratch protector? Done a google search and not found anything suggesting its a retail item. Yet to ask if its had the roller tappet conversion done? Of the two retail bikes I enquired both were removed from sale the day after, one was the last one I mentioned from some Italian bike dealer in leeds.
So did Guzzi make a 2010 White 1200 GrisoSE?
There's a very tidy low mileage 1100 on ebay says he has done the solenoid cable and used this forum regular. Another though highish mileage 1100 45K well used and filthy, how can you claim its beautiful black when its filthy grey and minging lol. Says its been ECU remapped by BSD Performance to cure poor fueling? Looks like a bargain for £2500. How come sellers dont use the forum to advertise their bikes, I mean they can use other alternatives too but lots of potential new buyers with an ounce of common will be frequenting a forum.
Still got my eye on a black 2009 GRiSO 1200 with 18k claimed to have done the rollers. Only concern I have as looks like its been left in the garden in the rain, we have a lot of rain in the UK and dash looks well condensated. I heard somewhere Guzzi are ok riding in the stuff but dont like standing in it for ages. Its in Norwich and am in Plymouth bit of a run to go have a look with the potential of riding it home, Not so much the riding it home the train journeys up and over there.
Any help with the buying aspect much apreciated

To the best of my knowledge the SE series started with with the Tenni green model, then went on to the black and silver 'Black Devil' and finally the 'Red Devil' although in some markets the black and silver livery either remained alongside the red and black or was re-introduced during the final run of production one assumes to use up temaindered stock of bodywork.

I am not aware of there ever having been any white models being sold as SE's but things like this might be market specific. Perhaps there were some thrown together for the UK market with white paintwork? Dunno.

Wire wheels were an SE thing but that and the livery were really the only things that put the 'Special' in 'Special Edition'.

Anything like carbon fibre bling is almost certainly aftermarket. There were never any factory CF trim bits for the rocker covers AFAIK although that may just be my failing memory.

With regards to the rollerisation of earlier models? Don't rely on anything you are told. Many places will say it's been rollerised when in fact it has only had the early flat tappets swapped for a later iteration. They fail too. If they can't show you at the very least pictures? Walk away. Plenty of other fish in the sea.

Do remember that with any bike ridden regularly in the damp of the UK both the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings will almost certainly be toast and need replacing. Chances are the steering head bearings will be on their way as well so factor that into the price.

Hi Buellbloke
Welcome    

If it is any help my white 2008 cost me £4750 last August with 28,000 miles & the seller let me remove the rocker boxes to see the roller-followers before i paid.

I would argue with the seller that as rollerisation is a very expensive (£2000+) fix it is worth their time to remove them for you or let you do it.   Then you could also see the inside of the rocker boxes.

Pete is right about the effects of rain and road salt on swing arm bearings and suspension linkages - but as a Brit living by the sea you must be used to the effects of salt 

Pete Roper wrote:

Wire wheels were an SE thing but that and the livery were really the only things that put the 'Special' in 'Special Edition'.

Anything like carbon fibre bling is almost certainly aftermarket. There were never any factory CF trim bits for the rocker covers AFAIK although that may just be my failing memory.

With regards to the rollerisation of earlier models? Don't rely on anything you are told. Many places will say it's been rollerised when in fact it has only had the early flat tappets swapped for a later iteration. They fail too. If they can't show you at the very least pictures? Walk away. Plenty of other fish in the sea.

Do remember that with any bike ridden regularly in the damp of the UK both the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings will almost certainly be toast and need replacing. Chances are the steering head bearings will be on their way as well so factor that into the price.

I did think maybe this was an owner created SE as both the wheels and black nacells are available new/used. So far only had one inform me bike is documented as having the rollerisation performed. Obviously would like to see that documentation maybe chase up where the work was done. Am a bit nervous about asking for them to remove one of the rockers as although these bikes are the capable spannermans dream, a vast majority lack any kind of competance. Notice often the bikes available are located near italian dealers hinting at full dealer servicing/maintenance. As for plenty of fish in the sea there seems to be very few fish in the UK GRiSO sea except maybe safer bet 1100's.

lcjohnny wrote:

Hi Buellbloke
Welcome

Thanx mate
If it is any help my white 2008 cost me £4750 last August with 28,000 miles & the seller let me remove the rocker boxes to see the roller-followers before i paid.

I would argue with the seller that as rollerisation is a very expensive (£2000+) fix it is worth their time to remove them for you or let you do it. Then you could also see the inside of the rocker boxes.

Pete is right about the effects of rain and road salt on swing arm bearings and suspension linkages - but as a Brit living by the sea you must be used to the effects of salt

I did consider asking if could remove the cover and inspect, I mean what are we talking the appropriate socketed allen head, a soft faced mallet, possibly some high temp silicon, a small torque wrench with the correct specs? Does one need to remove the side panel to gain access to the two inner rocker cover bolts?. I should probably grab a manual does the Ghetto have a file/.pdf section I've yet to search. As for salt incursion obviously on a purchase miles from home am kinda stuffed, though if paid can then test ride and pick up on any immediate failings. Dangerous wobbles will have me getting my money back or sorting a major discount to compensate for the need to transport the bike home.

Three screws to remove a 'Wing' a 3mm Allen key to remove the plug lead cover, a long screwdriver to pry the plug cap off from the bottom and a 5mm Allen key or T bar to undo the four rocker cover bolts. That's it. No mallets or sealants required. On a GRiSO it's literally a five minute job.

Pete Roper wrote:

Three screws to remove a 'Wing' a 3mm Allen key to remove the plug lead cover, a long screwdriver to pry the plug cap off from the bottom and a 5mm Allen key or T bar to undo the four rocker cover bolts. That's it. No mallets or sealants required. On a GRiSO it's literally a five minute job.

Thanx dude I forgot about the plug cover, so no torque setting to re-tighten cover bolts, just wang em up snug or tight? Believe I read somewhere they use a silicon gasket for the rocker cover? Thought maybe need the silicon sealant if the gasket was somewhat perished or lacking integrity. Checked the Ghetto there is no manaul on .pdf am surprised

Manuals are here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Rocker boxes have a rubber band seal seems fine to make and break. I beleive that there is a torque figure for the rocker box screws but i just do them gently snug (they press on rubber seals (tampons)

The rocker cover bolts are 6mm thread. Just snug them down and in somewhere like the UK, especially near the sea, use some Nickle-cote anti seize on them. You don't need to hang off them like a gorilla.

No need for sealant on the gaskets. The 8V uses neoprene gaskets. The 2V? Just use Valpolini gaskets. But for the benefit of inspecting the tappets on an 8V no sealant is needed. (Unless the gaskets are baked brittle and have not been changed for ten years!)

When I was shopping around for a GRiSO, in France, I had quite a time getting any owners to let me check that the roller conversion had been done. And some quite weird (angry FULL CAPS) responses to my enquiries. Luckily I wasn't in a hurry and eventually I found somebody who was willing to take photos with the valve covers off and assure me that it was indeed a factory roller. I'm pretty sure that a strong majority of second hand 1200 grisos out there are roller disasters waiting to happen.

Midlifecrisis has a white GRiSO and lives in Cuckfield (north of Brighton) so this could be his. He also has a Le Mans MK1, so likes his Guzzis.

Edit: I guess this is the one, in Hassocks: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Does the " lots of history " mentioned in the advert include anything about rollerising?

Also worth noting that an "original exhaust" cost me about £330 ($550 from Russia).

Papa Lazarou wrote:

Midlifecrisis has a white GRiSO and lives in Cuckfield (north of Brighton) so this could be his. He also has a Le Mans MK1, so likes his Guzzis.

Edit: I guess this is the one, in Hassocks: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So Midlifecrisis is a forum member, thats cool as looks like might be my next option.

Black 08 in Norwich is a dealer service person/fits all parts for him/rider only, he believes it's had the work though only doumentation he has is for the Official Camshaft Recall??
They did have an Offical Camsaft Recall but this is not the Roller Tappet Conversion??. Am gutted as his bike is nicely priced plus the condition is very nice.
Even if got it cheaper than the £4500 asking to cover purchase of the parts (roller tappets), there's no gurantee its not already started breaking up.
Can do the job myself as its not rocket science. its all head work so not difficult.

lcjohnny wrote:

Does the " lots of history " mentioned in the advert include anything about rollerising?

Also worth noting that an "original exhaust" cost me about £330 ($550 from Russia).

Nothing about Rollerisation, I know if I was selling one of these would be a priority to mention heavy duty fused solenoid cable fitted, tappets rollerised and include pictures.
Its almost like a lot of 1200 GRiSO sellers know the bike has not been done and are hoping some newb who doesnt have the facts is going to buy it so they can move the problem on.

I'd probably leave the original exhaust behind imagine could probably flog it on. The bike in Norwich is train journey then ride bike back home so no way to carry that massive silencer.
Brighton bike could maybe travel up in a car.

Buellbloke wrote:

I'd probably leave the original exhaust behind

I did City of London to Bristol on  Ducati M900 Monster with 2 original silencers and a tailpiece in a large rucksack -
it was stressful but mostly because i did not know if the weak headlight was due to it being set wrongly or the beginning of Ducati-electrics    

The GRiSO silencer is smaller and lighter than that...but i suppose Norwich to Plymouth woiuld be a bit far

lcjohnny wrote:

Buellbloke wrote:

I'd probably leave the original exhaust behind

I did City of London to Bristol on  Ducati M900 Monster with 2 original silencers and a tailpiece in a large rucksack -
it was stressful but mostly because i did not know if the weak headlight was due to it being set wrongly or the beginning of Ducati-electrics    

The GRiSO silencer is smaller and lighter than that...but i suppose Norwich to Plymouth woiuld be a bit far

It has a Carbon Mistral fitted very nice looking silencer am not too bothered about that original thing. Could always pay to have them ship it down
My main concern is how badly am wanting it with updated pics sent, but no confirmation of rollerisation only the recall camshafts. Am offerring them £50 upfront off a £250 deposit for collection next week. if they can remove the cover or pay someone to remove it. if it shows the work has not been done they can keep the £50

For the 'camshaft recall' here's a copy of the service record from mine so you can compare the dates  - whatever they changed (may have included harder tappets) in AUGUST 2013; it wasn't rollerisation (I did this myself in July 2016..gulp).....seems to me a safe bet to assume that any 'tappet' related work before 2014 probably didn't put rollers in.

The vagueness of the service records means it's hard to determine anything around details of major work !

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[quote="paulbrice"]For the 'camshaft recall' here's a copy of the service record from mine so you can compare the dates  - whatever they changed (may have included harder tappets) in AUGUST 2013; it wasn't rollerisation (I did this myself in July 2016..gulp).....seems to me a safe bet to assume that any 'tappet' related work before 2014 probably didn't put rollers in.

The vagueness of the service records means it's hard to determine anything around details of major work !

Here's what was sent to me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I absolutely love the look of the white GRiSO. I think if I ever decided to repaint my Diavolo Nero, that's the route I'd go.

Bloke with black GRiSO fell silent after mentioned exposing the rockers.
Am in luv with that black GRiSO, if can get him down another £500 am thinking maybe I could order a C kit for a 2008. How much for one of those bad boys and that tool to lock the camshaft up??

Buellbloke wrote:

They did have an Offical Camsaft Recall but this is not the Roller Tappet Conversion??. Am gutted as his bike is nicely priced plus the condition is very nice.
Even if got it cheaper than the £4500 asking to cover purchase of the parts (roller tappets), there's no gurantee its not already started breaking up.
Can do the job myself as its not rocket science. its all head work so not difficult.

With the white one in auto trader it may just of started to rattle at that mileage and may of been 'Fixed' by closing up the valve lash ready to flick-pass to someone else.

The only official 'Recall' was the swap from chilled cast iron tappets to forged steel with the DLC coating on. That doesn't fix the problem.

Buellbloke wrote:

Bloke with black GRiSO fell silent after mentioned exposing the rockers.  
Am in luv with that black GRiSO, if can get him down another £500 am thinking maybe I could order a C kit for a 2008. How much for one of those bad boys and that tool to lock the camshaft up??

No need for any special tools to perform the rollerisation unless you consider a valve spring compressor a 'Special' tool?

A 2008 will be a 'C' kit bike but as I have explained elsewhere it is far cheaper to buy a 'B' kit and add the extra parts you might need. You have read the 'Definitive guide to rollerisation' thread?

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Pete Roper wrote:

Buellbloke wrote:

Bloke with black GRiSO fell silent after mentioned exposing the rockers.  
Am in luv with that black GRiSO, if can get him down another £500 am thinking maybe I could order a C kit for a 2008. How much for one of those bad boys and that tool to lock the camshaft up??

No need for any special tools to perform the rollerisation unless you consider a valve spring compressor a 'Special' tool?

A 2008 will be a 'C' kit bike but as I have explained elsewhere it is far cheaper to buy a 'B' kit and add the extra parts you might need. You have read the 'Definitive guide to rollerisation' thread?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Did you do this video "liked and subscribed" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you say about a tool to remove the camshafts/refit them. I can prob borrow a valve spring compressor. Ok so how much for a B kit, I did read the thread though my old stroked out brain forgets details

Apart from popping the rocker off to inspect see if rollerised, what other tell tale signs are there the DLC has worn off and the tappets are failing. This is an 18K bike regular dealer servicing. Having never owned a Guzzi am unlikely to know the difference sound wise. Imagine could drain the oil look for excessive swarf? Bike is cheap £4.5K I need cheap as funds are sorely limited.
Hoping to buy the bike and ride it from Norwich to Plymouth stop and do the top end.

Yup, that's one of my vids, although perhaps I should add a note that the guide roller pins are available separately, they just are on a weird area of the parts diagrams!

Thing is you don't have to disassemble the cambox when rollerising. The camboxes should come assembled. It was only on that one occasion I got sent a 'Friday afternoon special' kit where one cambox was assembled and the other one was just a load of parts poured into a box! The only disassembly/reassembly you have to do is undo the two 8mm bolts, (6mm Allen head.) in the centre of the plate that retains the rockers, lift the plate off and swap the rockers from the old cambox to the new one. When you replace the plate you put the new style earthing tang under the centre bolts and when you bolt the cambox down by tightening the four main head nuts you discard the original earthing tang that sat on the upper rear stud and rubbed against the inside of the rocker cover.

To know how bad the tappets are you need to look at them and to do that you have to disassemble the cambox as shown in my other vid. If the tappets are completely fucked you can see when the engine is set up at TDC compression that the tops of the tappets won't protrude above the level of the cambox. Thing is unless you know what they should usually look like or have seen lots of them like I have it will probably not be helpful.

Generally though if you can see the bike started from cold if it needs to have the throttle played with to keep it going? If it surges and is reluctant to idle until warm or is clattery those also are good indicators that the tappets are well on their way.

As for what the parts cost? I'll dig out a recent invoice for what the whole lot will cost but it won't have GST or any import duty on it. After Brexit I have absolutely no bloody idea how excise and import duties are levied in the UK. Nor it seems does Boris! There are substantial savings to be made by going the 'B' kit and parts route rather than buying a 'C' kit but 'B' kits are in short supply. They just had two come back into stock at TLM and I bought them both within 20 minutes of them being listed as available and they are now nil stock again!

Gimme a couple of hours and I'll let you know the cost of what you'll need.

Pete Roper wrote:

Yup, that's one of my vids, although perhaps I should add a note that the guide roller pins are available separately, they just are on a weird area of the parts diagrams!

Thing is you don't have to disassemble the cambox when rollerising. The camboxes should come assembled. It was only on that one occasion I got sent a 'Friday afternoon special' kit where one cambox was assembled and the other one was just a load of parts poured into a box! The only disassembly/reassembly you have to do is undo the two 8mm bolts, (6mm Allen head.) in the centre of the plate that retains the rockers, lift the plate off and swap the rockers from the old cambox to the new one. When you replace the plate you put the new style earthing tang under the centre bolts and when you bolt the cambox down by tightening the four main head nuts you discard the original earthing tang that sat on the upper rear stud and rubbed against the inside of the rocker cover.

Thought I read about shims for under the inlet valve spring seats, valve guide oil seals for those valves, and needing a spring compressor. A head removal and figuring what head gasket was needed.
Job sounds simple enough, built a couple GS1000 Streetfighters from crankcases up, with flowed and ported heads, changed many valve guides and oil seals changed a few cam chains on inline 4's. Plenty of strip and refittting early fords in the days when using a dataliner and full bodyshells was a thing. Do all my own spanner work though am no qualified mechanic thats for sure, with age and a stroke am particularly slower Am already excited to get started, just need to buy the bike and get it home. It has just had a full service surely if engine failure or excessive swarf was found in the oil the dealer would have picked that up?
Am sure the price of parts will make this purchase unviable but one can only hope. Oh yeah and thanx for your time

See my edit of previous post but as far as swarf etc? The stuff that comes off the tappets is very small to microscopic and until the tappets actually start to disintegrate you are unlikely to see 'Bits' in the oil.

The onset of failure, with the benefit of hindsight from my own engine, is that when the oil was changed the first couple of times it came out looking pretty much clean and odourless. By the third change it started getting a lot darker and began to have a slightly burnt, metallic, odour. This didn't seem to get any worse and although the valve clearances needed adjusting every service I didn't experience any huge discrepancies or very wide gaps in routine servicing so I just thought it was the rings not sealing as well as they might and blow-by fouling the oil, (This was when the 8V was very new and I was still learning about it but if I'd  thought anything serious was wrong with it I would of addressed it.). It was that optimism that cost me my engine but no point crying over spilt milk.

One plus of having a 2008 is that you get the steel oil pump gear! Later models use a plastic gear and while generally reliable I have seen two failures. The plastic gear I just took out of my 2012 engine was fine at 60,000km so its not like they are a weak point per-se but on something like an oil pump I really prefer a steel gear.

Check the throttle bodies haven't been monstered too. That's another big ticket item if they have.