Barn find, Netherlands!

@ Pete,
I understand now the severe PITA of the stock 1400 barrels and piston rebuild, but I assumed the 1380cc kit would be modded stock barrels and a slightly better fit, but still a risk by ruining a good engine for little gain and still a lot of work to integrate well.
I understand now it isn't an easy swap. Thank you for your extensive explanation!

@kindoy2 &kidsmoke,
Thank you for your confirmation the mapping is great! The milage is impressive and looks like an endgame!

This weekend I managed to squeeze an appointment at TLM to reset the mapping to original and add a new filter. The K&N is removed now and the original airbox without snorkel reinstalled.

I did not recall the bike was this loud, but since it's a 2010 model it may have less restrictions as recent models. Luckely the noise level is still impressive and not too much. The only difference is the Mistral high oval trumpets more audible with the original filter used. I wasn't able to hear this with the K&N installed.

From memory, I thought the lower rpm range was pretty lame but with the original mapping it's easier and smoother as on the remapped version. The torque feels not much different but if the milage will be increased significantly it's already a good choice to reset the mapping to factory.

Unfortunately, TLM is not open to add the Beetle mapping in my bike and I need to find a way to get this sorted by myself(total noob) or outsource to a local Dyno mechanic.

Basically, only the Beetle and rollerise needs to be done to finish my GRiSO.
I'll plan this in winter when there is a free pickup/delivery at the store.

I might as well have Pirelli MT60rs installed.

There is no point to doing anything to it until it's rollerised. I would recommend not riding it until it is done. While Mark did do some early map development work for flat tappet engines I don't believe he supplies them any more because all flat tappet engines will fail. Even if you did map with a flat tappet map you'd have to remap when you rollerise as the different cam profiles change the way the engine breathes and therefore the fuelling required.

I find it odd that they won't install a map for you? Weren't they selling you on the idea of a big bore conversion? Can't run one of them on a stock map!

Surely their is someone in The Netherlands who will install a Beetle map..There are many Moto Guzzi riders there..and it is not that hard..even I did my own with a little advice from Beetle, and I am no tech genius by any means..

No offense but I think you have your priorities are little out of order..I would #1 do the Rollerising of the Motor..then you can at least have some peace of mind that the most serious and potentially destructive issue is out of the way, then get your exhaust set up then get the correct Map from Beetle..IMO..Anyone who can do a proper rollerising should be able to install the Map know someone who can.

I Mistral High muffler with the DB killer in is not " loud at all imo...I have one on mine..and I do not like loud bikes..

I'm surprised that you find the stock air filter louder than the crappy BMC? That is counter intuitive. There are no differences between any model of 8V GRiSO in terms of noise control or abatement.

How could one prioritize wrong with resetting to original mapping and filter first?
Summer is coming to an end over here and having 8k on my bike I'm not too worried a few extra kilometers will ruin my engine.

It needs to be rollerised and remapped which I noted in a previous post.
I find intake noise amazingly loud with original filter, without snorkel. From memory I thought is should be less loud.

ErikdeBrabander wrote:

How could one prioritize wrong with resetting to original mapping and filter first?

Because Pete's experience    shows that even though the fragments of DLC coating that come off the flat tappets are small enough to go through the oil filter... they can embed in the bearing shells and wear crankshaft bearing surfaces.

This may not have happened yet... or it may have already happened.
However who is to know at what kilometer the damage to the crankshaft gets too bad?  

So the general advice is.. If you intend to rollerise it then dont put any more miles on before you do!

The reason for the maps only suiting the roller engine is that a flat tappet is lifted earlier by the cam than a roller tappet so gives a different effective valve timing.

Listen to Pete I don't know how much clearer the advice needs to be before the message is recieved and absorbed at this point if you keep riding it it's just going to become a faster ticking timebomb

kindoy2 wrote:

Surely their is someone in The Netherlands who will install a Beetle map..There are many Moto Guzzi riders there..and it is not that hard..even I did my own with a little advice from Beetle, and I am no tech genius by any means..

No offense but I think you have your priorities are little out of order..I would #1 do the Rollerising of the Motor..then you can at least have some peace of mind that the most serious and potentially destructive issue is out of the way, then get your exhaust set up then get the correct Map from Beetle..IMO..Anyone who can do a proper rollerising should be able to install the Map know someone who can.  

I Mistral High muffler with the DB killer in is not " loud at all imo...I have one on mine..and I do not like loud bikes..

Welcome in Amstelveen for installing a Beetle Map.
(but first rollerize)

Ed

ErikdeBrabander wrote:

Summer is coming to an end over here and having 8k on my bike I'm not too worried a few extra kilometers will ruin my engine.

The reason why I, and others, are so insistent about this is because we know from experience. Many folk here were equally skeptical when first advised of the issue but on inspection found that my advice was sound. There was one bloke, dunno if he's still around or not, from the UK who had his engine rebuilt multiple times prior to having covered 10,000 miles due to repeated failures.

I too was in denial for a long time. While disasters were occurring elsewhere I simply wasn't seeing any failures in my workshop on bikes I'd serviced from new so I made the wrong assumption that it was simply some sort of poor maintenance problem. It was only when I had my first failure on a bike I knew the history of with 100% certainty that I decided to instigate the policy of insisting that any 8V bike that came through the shop I would pull a cambox to inspect. If people didn't want it done? My tools stayed in the box and I refused to service their bikes. Why? Well because for some reason the final descent into clattery destruction seems to occur often shortly after the engine has been freshly serviced. Of course when that occurs you are laid open to the "You worked on my bike and now it's broken so you have to buy me a Ferrari." type arguments which is tiresome, time consuming and boring! Pulling the left hand cambox takes fifteen minutes, (There's a video of me doing it in the technical section. The vid is thirteen minutes long and I wasn't rushing!). After instituting this policy I was horrified to discover a 100% failure rate. THEY ALL FAIL. Some last longer than others and a variety of factors seem to influence the timeline of failure. I'm also pretty sure I know the root cause but that's by the by.

The bottom line though is that they don't start making a racket until all the DLC has gone from the tappet surface. Once it has the underlying parent metal of the tappet wears very rapidly. The process is irreversible and all the particulate material from the tappets passes through the oil pump prior to the filter damaging it and when the engine is cold the filter may go into bypass allowing DLC fragments to pass through into the lubrication circuit where they will embed in bearings and compromise their ability to wedge. On the 8V the front main bearing is an irreplaceable part of the crankcase. Once compromised the engine is effectively scrap. They don't make them any more.

Look. It's your bike. You do as you like, but I'm offering advice based on fifteen years of experience and having conducted about 300 rollerisations both when I was an 'Official' service agent under warranty and while working as an independent. I would hazard a guess that is more experience than just about anyone you can talk to anywhere else. We're still doing rollerisations here and my advice to customers is ship the bike to us. Don't even start it again until it has roller tappets installed. Most people accept that advice. Some don't. We had a customer who set off from Sydney and his bike 'Sounded fine' just a few weeks ago. When he pulled up at Michael's place it was a clattering mess! Sydney is only 250km away.

Really, delaying isn't worth it.

I haven’t posted for a few years now, but I have to chime in on this one. I have a 2010 Red GRiSO I bought brand new. I have about 30k miles on it now and it’s been rollerized. I also have a ‘76 LM850 and ‘74 fully restored disc brake Eldo (completed last summer).
I have a Zard muffler w/DB killer on the GRiSO with a Beetle map, which made a huge difference, but not perfect. The game changer was installing a Xytronix Zt-3 wideband O2 sensor controller kit. Beetle turned me on to this years ago. I believe he used an Innovate LC-2. After install just re-enable the O2 sensor in his map. Also get the Xytronix app along with a USB to RS232 adapter to connect to the Zytronix controller and set the AFR switch point . Seat of the pants tuning was 12.8 AFR switch point. It is a different bike with this mod. Perfect fueling everywhere!! And I get a consistent 42mpg.

Rob

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You will also need a 15ohm 50W resistor

Hi Rob!

Due to work I haven't payed much attention to my thread, but I am amazed on your great collection you have!  Thank you for your comments they may be of use later!

I have been to the nearest Guzzi dealer for inquiries on the cost for rollerisation which turned out to be quite intense on the labour costs and as I noted earlier they are not open to add the Beetle map.
Because of this a few weeks ago I contacted a local Guzzi restauration shop (a one man business with a classic workspace, love it!) and asked him if he was open to do this mods and he was pleased to pick my GRiSO up.
Last weekend he picked up my GRiSO for rollerisation and Beetle mapping. I'm looking forward to the results and the expected delivery has been set at april2024 (when the salt has been rained away from the tarmac) thus he gets all the time to do it well. I do prefer this route to have it modified by a one man shop instead of a big dealership to cut costs and for direct communication (where Dutches are known for LOL!!!) Don't like to pay for a front office...

In the meanwhile there will be a short list to add to this bike in future but I will wait for it until the final costs of the rollerisation are available.
It is a small list tough but it should be sweet:
Avon Trekrider tires
roadlok  brake caliper lock
Acerbis Dual Road handguards
Brembo RCS radial brake and clutch cilinders (the stock caps start to peel the paint by now and I'd like more comfort with light lever operation)
1 spoke of the front and rear wheel painted white.
Brakeaway cruise control.
Beeline nav (not sure about this, I do like lane assist and voice prompt which lacks here but dislike an expensive router worth a try I guess)

The result should be close to an apperance like supermoto/scrambler
I found some pics online which could give some impressions.

Not Avon Trekride here, but the Trekride looks more bada$$ to me and has 90/10 street/dirt compound.
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Acerbis handguards, seems the LED version is not available in Europe.
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Roadlok: Not too keen on the gold verion but it's highly visible.
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Hi Eric,
Thank you for the compliments of my Guzzi collection! I’ve been riding Guzzi’s since 1975 (showing my age now!) and working on motorcycles is my hobby. You’re GRiSO is stunning! What year is it? I ask because the factory started rollerizing the GRiSO engines in April of 2012, starting with engine #A813524.

BTW - I have been to the Netherlands many times for work. I’m retired now but used to be an FSE working on the IDSS CT security lane scanner at Schipol airport. Amsterdam is one of my favorite cities to visit!

Rob .. from Massachusetts USA

Hi Rob,

Mine is a 2010 version and needs to be rollerised. At 8000 km this engine is barely broken in thus it is worth to invest to my liking. I always do fancy a more industrial approach and like a raw appearance BUT chosen with great care. However, on the GRiSO I was considering if being 50yrs old myself this bike would be too high in mass to enjoy for the coming decades. I did consider a Bellagio but I do realise my GRiSO is too good to swap! For this reason I made a small wishlist for comfort/appearance and I guess it's about everything I could wish for without getting carried away too much LOL!!
Still it is a considerable amount of money to invest in an 13yr old bike but it's well worth it IMO.

I do like the fairings of the Cupracer very much! the green and orange are heritage colors. The only thing I might change is to have the top fairing "windshield"area repainted in metallic light blue or gold.
I am very slow in completing this bike but I know it'll be sound similar to my tR1ke build (have a browse at google pictures: the red chasis+mudguardsand grey bonnet #4. Very easy to locate.

Ah you know how we communicate LOL!!! We hear quite a lot we are too straightforward.
Amsterdam is great but a bit to crowded for me :lol:Same with Shiphol...

My professions have been very divers. I started as a die+mould+tool maker/cnc miller 5D but the last decades more into specific client builds in the industrial automotive. My current profession is client specific excavator conversions and converting from diesel to HV (800V). 1.2MegaWatt batterie packs hehe [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Managed to find some decent mirrors. I have been looking for alternatives for my bar end mirrors if I intend to add the acerbis handguards. I had them mounted downwards for a brief moment but noticed the underarm restricts some mirror view.Basically they could be placed more inwards to sit below the wrist and gain a better view.
It took me a few weeks of browsing to find a CE approved solution and I guess it's a proper option when one adds handguards. Even the Scrambler guards look pretty neat. not sure if it'll beat the Acerbis for aestatics.

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Yesterday I visited the bike mechanic and he did some research on the kit needed. The rollerisation isn't a budget solution thus cosmetics will be carried out later when an overview of total costs are estimated. I'm not in a hurry and give myself quite a bit of time to decide, After all, the bike is planned to be returned april 2024.

Still reading a lot of reviews and vlogs on many new motorbikes but I noticed owning a GRiSO makes many alternatives a "downgrade". Wow, I'm too keen on this fat lady [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  

I may inquire the mirrors for compatibility at our local Guzzi/Triumph dealer later.

Would it be too awkward to have one spoke and centre cap of the rearwheel painted white?
I noticed the Ducati Hypermotard has black/red wheels which do not impress me (it'll turn black while driving anyway) but a single spoke could be quite remarkable off highway.

greets,

Guest wrote:

I haven’t posted for a few years now, but I have to chime in on this one. I have a 2010 Red GRiSO I bought brand new. I have about 30k miles on it now and it’s been rollerized. I also have a ‘76 LM850 and ‘74 fully restored disc brake Eldo (completed last summer).
I have a Zard muffler w/DB killer on the GRiSO with a Beetle map, which made a huge difference, but not perfect. The game changer was installing a Xytronix Zt-3 wideband O2 sensor controller kit. Beetle turned me on to this years ago. I believe he used an Innovate LC-2. After install just re-enable the O2 sensor in his map. Also get the Xytronix app along with a USB to RS232 adapter to connect to the Zytronix controller and set the AFR switch point . Seat of the pants tuning was 12.8 AFR switch point. It is a different bike with this mod. Perfect fueling everywhere!! And I get a consistent 42mpg.

Rob

@zackc @ratso88

Rob, All three bikes are stellar.

Curious as to the tail rack on the GRiSO in conjuntion with the HB bags. That doesn't look like a standard HB tail rack that I'm familiar with. Is that a Ventura rack in conjuction with C-Bow racks?


And you've also got me reconsidering that larger screen. Mine is cloudy, and now, in a box.

ErikdeBrabander wrote:

a few weeks ago I contacted a local Guzzi restauration shop (a one man business with a classic workspace, love it!) and asked him if he was open to do this mods and he was pleased to pick my GRiSO up.
Last weekend he picked up my GRiSO for rollerisation and Beetle mapping. I'm looking forward to the results and the expected delivery has been set at april2024 (when the salt has been rained away from the tarmac) thus he gets all the time to do it well. I do prefer this route to have it modified by a one man shop instead of a big dealership to cut costs and for direct communication (where Dutches are known for LOL!!!) Don't like to pay for a front office...

It's April 2024....
Anything?

Hi! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The GRiSO is rollerised and oil change but still at the Guzzi classic mechanic shop. I went to visit him last week and had a look into the wishlist but it turned out the Oberon clutch mod is quite a time consuming upgrade as well as the rear shock grease job. Given the low milage only the long bolts and bearings will be greased.

The tires will be changed for Avon Trailriders but only 1 tire has arrived and the other is on it's way. I expect to have her back soon.

The only minor dissapointment was Avon stopped production in december 2023...
The biggest bonus for me is the mechanic receives many compliments of his costumers regarding my GRiSO.

Next fase should be a thermostat and catch up some things on my wishlist first such as a gold wrapped front screen fairing and proper navigation and roadlok (brake disc lock).
I'm getting more aware the GRiSO might be theft sensitive regardless of it's age.

Regards!
Erik

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or Beeline moto2

Greasing the swingarm bearings and shock linkages is about an hour and a half's work, the Oberon slave is a bit of a pain as the parts provided don't work very well.

If your mechanic is a 'Classic' Guzzi guy please make sure he understands what he should and shouldn't touch on the throttlebodies. If he plays around with the throttle stop screws to try and alter the idle speed or changes the length of the linkage rod by moving the ball joints it will destroy the integrity of the throttlebodies. He will also need Guzzidiag or some other form of diagnostic tool to tune the bike and it should be re-mapped after rollerisation.