Shocking Cost of Original Swing Arm Bearings

I like a lot of people may have assumed as my Swing Arm bearings were intact and still retaining some grease that they were serviceable?
They feel smooth enough and regreased feel fine.
Am of another mindset that says if your going to the trouble of accessing them then replacing them is always the best option.
I mean wheel bearings and headrace bearings are cheap as chips...arent they?

Not so Moto Guzzi Genuine Swing Arm Bearings.
Been in touch with another specialist reseller who says he is unable to source the correct size bearings with a seal.
He sells unsealed exposed to the outside world taper roller bearings £36 a pop.
He has no access to the inner seals unless he went via Moto Guzzi.
Stein Denze in the EU sell a similar item.
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Gutsibits sell Genuine Original Sealed Moto Guzzi Swing Arm Bearings plus inner seals at over a £100 a pop, f*cking typical.
Ordered regardless, imagine the seats to be a f*cker to fit?
I could always use the original seats as undamaged but also unmatched (sacrilige)

Does anyone know if the Seal Rotates with the bearing centre as a complete piece or the centre moves independant of the seal?
You know your getting old and seasoned when you ask questions like that
Obviously once my new ones arrive that question will be answered.

Just spotted this place, price is for a single item so half price of Genuine, one can't say Genuine is better going by how long they last which doesnt seem to be very long.
I highly doubt Moto Guzzi manufacture them you know damn well they outsource them.
It's too late for me as know how fast Gutsibits will process and ship, but for someone else contemplating the procedure in the UK.
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Seal rotates with the inner race.

£28 seems like a reasonable price. They are something like £32 from TLM.

Pete Roper wrote:

Seal rotates with the inner race.

£28 seems like a reasonable price. They are something like £32 from TLM.

Damn wished had asked that question ages ago
My bearing seats are spotless and unmarked, the bearings upon re greasing appear smooth.
Would you have re-used them Pete or replaced them with new ones?

Depends on whether it was one of my bikes or a customer's. I'll push the friendship with mine if I think it's OK to do so but with a customer? Fuck no!

You could see your bearings were knackered in the photos - well brinelled; I haven't found a source for bearing like that with seals - I got same size without seals cheaper - never going to use.

BrianD wrote:

You could see your bearings were knackered in the photos - well brinelled; I haven't found a source for bearing like that with seals - I got same size without seals cheaper - never going to use.

Makes me feel slightly better you say so Brian in the sense purchased a new set, just wish had entertained this subject matter before deciding to replace them as a matter of course.
Could have saved myself £50 over buying the originals from Paggio that's even if they are identical.
Read somewhere the seats are a f*cker to remove and refit?

To remove the seats I used a pry bar (using the "claw" end) to get on the inside edge and then poked a bar through onto the head of the pry bar and tapped out (2 person job really - easier). Done it quote a few times now. Just work your way around. Use the old seat to put the new ones in with.

It's never ending, the new swing arm bearings arrived, cleaned out the recently replaced grease and offered them up.
The original bearing centre sits proud by a small margin and connects with the swing arm.
These bearing seals are recessed how the f*ck is that supposed to work?
Also the outer edge of the seal wont fit in the frame recess its wide enough to sit past it.
Certainly not an ideal where wear is concerned.
So is the part of the swing arm that connects to the bearing now capable of entering the seal and meeting up to the bearing inside?
On the right side not a chance the seal would act as a bearing surface, thats if you can pass the arm past the extra 4mm of the new bearings seals combined.
A new extra space to add grease  
Its almost like the the centre is identical as fits the swing arm bolt, but the bearing is more heavy duty as is the seat and makes the whole thing larger by a quite an amount.

Am confused, so confused because my brunneled bearings had no side play and were not rough or stiff yet had just enough grease and worked just fine I have re used them.
Its not like its a long job or difficult should I need to replace them later.
Everything else is now greased and anti seized so dissasembly should be a peace of piss.


Genuine Guzzi item evidently
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Cheap after market
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See if can spot the difference.

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The rear brake rotor is only torqued up to 18ftIbs yet the bolts are solid and the heads like swiss cheese. Tried one bolt on a key chewed , tried another with a long bar and slow pressure it chewed, tried shock tactics it chewed. F*cking thing can stay on there will source me another rear rotor, has pits in the surface anyway blah!

watch the rear caliper bolts aswell - very soft -
I always use a hex 13mm socket not a bi-hex or they chew up..
And they are not cheap

lcjohnny wrote:

watch the rear caliper bolts aswell - very soft -
I always use a hex 13mm socket not a bi-hex or they chew up..
And they are not cheap

Did you not read what I wrote them bolt heads is f*cked.
Am either sourcing a used rotor and new bolts or new rotor and new bolts.
Am getting me wedge back on the bearings cus they is all kinds of wrong

I did mention that the only RS bearings I'd found on the aftermarket wouldn't work because of the seal system and placement. I've been looking for alternatives for fifteen years with no joy.

As for removing the rotors? The bolts are Loctited. Use a butane torch on the heads and let the heat wick down the shank before trying to turn them and use a decent socket. It makes all the difference.

Pete Roper wrote:

I did mention that the only RS bearings I'd found on the aftermarket wouldn't work because of the seal system and placement. I've been looking for alternatives for fifteen years with no joy.

As for removing the rotors? The bolts are Loctited. Use a butane torch on the heads and let the heat wick down the shank before trying to turn them and use a decent socket. It makes all the difference.

You never heard of Gutsibits they are like the most major extension of the original Moto Guzzi in the UK for parts.
Am shocked at the state of these things for the price I paid.
They charged me £116 for two bearings and two inside seals one of them was bent oval, they claimed them originals  
Am I supposed to force the seal off and swap them for the originals?
If thats the case they can shove wasps up their arses if they think am sucking up that amount of money.

Thanx for the Rotor tip Pete

The illustrious Gutsibits have been on my shit list since they stole my V11 ‘Sloppage Sheet’ design and claimed it for their own. They’re thieves and plagiarists. Don’t care how popular they are.

One thing that always soothes my umbrage is that every morning they wake up and they’re still in Huddersfield!

When i replaced my swing arm bearings i thought that the most likely route of water and crud into the bearing was from wheel fling into the centre between the frame members.  This was backed up by the fact that the outer parts of the swing arm assembly on drive and silencer side were cleaner than the centre of the pivot pin.

So i found a bit of foam pipe insulation that would fit over the pivot pin and cut it about 4mm longer than the gap between the frame members it sits in there sprung tight against the sides and covering the swing arm pivot and the holes into the bearings. When i assamble the pivot pin the covering stays in place - easy peasy.

Will tell you if it has worked better than the original in another 22k miles

Great idea!
Except in my case I rarely ride in wet condtions and have a hugger, my spindle was clean and my bearings still had grease. There are supposed to be seals to keep out the shit.
Must admit to not being a fan of having the centre of the swing arm spindle exposed to the elements as asks to be abused. Deffo up for poking some black insultion foam in that gap though.

Pete Roper wrote:

I did mention that the only RS bearings I'd found on the aftermarket wouldn't work because of the seal system and placement. I've been looking for alternatives for fifteen years with no joy.

As for removing the rotors? The bolts are Loctited. Use a butane torch on the heads and let the heat wick down the shank before trying to turn them and use a decent socket. It makes all the difference.

Initiated a return of the faulty seal bearings, Gutsibits reckon am the first feedback they have received on these.
Does this mean others have bought them and reluctant to return, maybe they assume the king has new clothes and is not naked.

These wheels were bought for this bike Pete, matey either couldnt remove the front rotors or didnt like them as they have EBC rotors fitted.
The rear rotor is original so maybe he got the other off or maybe he sourced an original, as for the removal process who knows how hard he wanged these up or how much thread lock he used
Am thinking to replace it with one of these to match the front one less the wave as originals never had the wave either.

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On this subject I'd like to thank you for the heads-up from those shocks that the seals on the cones are removable.

I'd always assumed that there was a lip on the seal that fitted under the flange of the inner race and they were installed prior to the assembly of the rollers and cage.

Your post caused me to have a poke and prod at the seal and little effort persuaded it to come off the bearing! That is great because I can now go hunting for an identical seal of the same dimensions. If I can find that then all the issues with the 'Weird Harold' factory bearings simply vanish as the 62003 (Going from memory here?) bearings are common as shit and cost $12 or so. If I can source the seals I'd guess they'll be a similar sum meaning that replacements could be had for a third of the original price.

I'd give Yu 'Cred' if I knew what the fuck it was or how to do it? Very useful. Ta.

Pete Roper wrote:

On this subject I'd like to thank you for the heads-up from those shocks that the seals on the cones are removable.

I'd always assumed that there was a lip on the seal that fitted under the flange of the inner race and they were installed prior to the assembly of the rollers and cage.

Your post caused me to have a poke and prod at the seal and little effort persuaded it to come off the bearing! That is great because I can now go hunting for an identical seal of the same dimensions. If I can find that then all the issues with the 'Weird Harold' factory bearings simply vanish as the 62003 (Going from memory here?) bearings are common as shit and cost $12 or so. If I can source the seals I'd guess they'll be a similar sum meaning that replacements could be had for a third of the original price.

I'd give Yu 'Cred' if I knew what the fuck it was or how to do it? Very useful. Ta.

Surely you mean bearings you said "shock" dont recall me ever giving you any heads up or mentioning seal removal, you have me confused with some other more intelligent f*cker  
I imagine the seals do have a wedge of rubber sits between inner bearing and outer cage.
Of course I could remove (dig it with a micro screw driver/slightly damage) original and refit to new but kinda defeats the object of new.
Gutsibits was hinting at such. Am like am sure I could but not paying £48 per bearing to have to remove the seal and swap for old one.

If thats what has to be done, buy decent not extortinate bearings and use old seals. Try one!

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More information on the SA bearings -
The parts book shows a 25x47x17 taper roller bearing and separate "Gasket ring" GU05547930
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That is what i found in my bike - two rubber seals inboard of the bearings. I could not see how i could possibly assemble the pin through both seals gently enough to preserve the seal edges!!
That is why i opted for more water protection for the assembly from the centre by the pipe insulation.

When i bought mine from Fowlers in Bristol last year i got a pair of unsealed 25x47x17 taper rollers at £31.71 each.

The price of  a pair of these bearings, shipped,  can go as low as £36 cheap 25x47x17 linky or as high as or as high as £105 expensive 25x47x17 linky

Personally i think that this is a bloody awful place to use a taper roller bearing (no full roller rotation, only 10 degrees of movement and inadequate sealing from dust and water) so use the cheapest one you can; a good one will not last any longer here.  

IMHO manufacturers should use oil lubricated bushes in this kind of application - but that is very expensive compared to whacking in pre-engineered partially self centring taper rollers.

lcjohnny wrote:

More information on the SA bearings -
The parts book shows a 25x47x17 taper roller bearing and separate "Gasket ring" GU05547930

That is what i found in my bike - two rubber seals inboard of the bearings. I could not see how i could possibly assemble the pin through both seals gently enough to preserve the seal edges!!
That is why i opted for more water protection for the assembly from the centre by the pipe insulation.

When i bought mine from Fowlers in Bristol last year i got a pair of unsealed 25x47x17 taper rollers at £31.71 each.

The price of  a pair of these bearings, shipped,  can go as low as £36 cheap 25x47x17 linky or as high as or as high as £105 expensive 25x47x17 linky

Personally i think that this is a bloody awful place to use a taper roller bearing (no full roller rotation, only 10 degrees of movement and inadequate sealing from dust and water) so use the cheapest one you can; a good one will not last any longer here.  

IMHO manufacturers should use oil lubricated bushes in this kind of application - but that is very expensive compared to whacking in pre-engineered partially self centring taper rollers.

Tapers are very heavy duty compared to what a lot of manufacturers use, needle rollers like the suspension linkage use.
As long as use plenty of grease because we're only talking splash penetration.
On the outers if your using naked bearings, pop the seals off your old set and fit them to your new set.
On the inner seals you could use this stuff someone on here recommended, .....damn I've got some and forgot to use it
Good job can apply it to the outside for similar effect
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Sorry, yes, I meant bearing. Dunno where shock came from. I was just about to go to sleep.

No, this is what confused me. The seal is just a press on interference fit. There is no retaining lip. I too had assumed there was, but there isn't.

Jon. The thing is the bearing itself has an integral seal, (The one we are discussing above.) that is meant to exclude water from the outer ends of the bearings. The 'Seal rings', conventional lipped seals, provide protection from nastiness coming from the inside of the frame. The bearings themselves sit in the frame and the swingarm fits outboard of the frame.

Probably best if I illustrate the bearings with photos. I'll take an apart. Gimme a couple of hours.

As for the 'Seal rings'? These sit on registers in the frame and yes, it's very easy to dislodge the RH one as you push through the spindle. We always glue them in place with Stag and let it cure before inserting the spindle.

Oh my f*cking gawd, here you go Pete read the numbers and letters off the bearing seal, contact a bearing producer and ask for the seal off that particular bearing.
Just found Gutsibits genuine Moto Guzzi GRiSO bearings I bought for £48 each, Not for £48

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Interesting - the ones i took out were the same number as in the parts book 25x47x17 and un-shielded ....and they were the same ones i got from Fowlers.

The shielded ones above ( great link Buell bloke ) are 25x47x15 and that 2mm is probably sealing land for the shield.  Yep that is a much better idea - lets see how long my naked ones last

Arrrgh! Guys, listen to me. Those ones shown above WON'T WORK!

The seal sits proud of the face of the inner race. They won't fit inside the swingarm. Those are the only 32005RS bearings I was able to find on the aftermarket and they don't fit.

Any 32005 will do the job of the BEARING. The relevant bit for our purposes is the 'RS' suffix which tells you it has a rubber seal but not all seals are the same.

Here are some pics.

Bearing identifier. Note the RS suffix.

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Bearing used by factory. See that the face of the seal is flush with the top of the inner race. Not protruding above it as the one in the link does.

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Now I had assumed, (Wrongly!) that the seal on the 'Factory' bearing would have a lip to secure it under the flange of the inner race. It doesn't. It can simply be wriggled off by hand!

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Leaving what is a 'Plain Jane' 32005!

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The seal can simply be pressed back on to the original bearing, or, a 'Plain Jane' 32005. This is probably why Gutsibits suggest re-using the old seals but if that is the case why provide non-fitting RS type seals? Why not just provide unsealed bearings at lower cost?

The end result of course is that you end up with a new bearing with a second hand seal which is less than ideal but will fit inside the swingarm as they are designed to.

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Now I've noticed that removing the seal from the *New* bearing a few times does nothing to assist its fit. It gets 'Looser' every time I do it. I'll be glueing it back on with Stag before it goes in a bike.

My new task is to take the seal into my cornucopia of bearing factors and see if they can match it up with something similar. If they can we're laughing.

@Pete is this the kind of thing that you are looking for ? Linky bearing "washer"

Also confused because the parts book (from the Ghetto) says we need a 25x47x17 bearing which is reference 33005 or JKOS025