Actually I have been a bit preoccupied. Michael had to go back into hospital for an urgent procedure at very short notice and I always worry when his wheels start coming off, (Figuratively!). Needless to say we have work backing up. Man I want to retire......
Pete, if an extra pair of hands would help you, I'm free most of this weekend to come out and assist.
Thanks Craig, as I replied, I made the work all go away!
Actually one job was a bloke coming up from Sydney with a Bellagio with a dicky clutch. He thought it was gearbox related. I pooh-poohed the notion and told him to check the clutch lever plunger. He called back this morning and yes, that fixed it!
He then said he was going to be selling the Bellagio and wanted to buy a GRiSO. I'd just been phoned yesterday by a customer who is selling his white, rollerised, 2008 so I put them in contact with each other. So in one day I've managed to rob myself of work and a potential commission on sale!
Well done me! So much winning!
PS. I think I'll take the yellow bike out for a ride and see if I can kill myself on that today!
Matias, My wife and I will be on holiday in Portugal in late September/early October and will be in Lisbon from Oct 10 - 14 if you want to want to talk some some GRiSO waffle and pat ourselves on the back for owning this wonderful motorcycle. Mark
Matias, My wife and I will be on holiday in Portugal in late September/early October and will be in Lisbon from Oct 10 - 14 if you want to want to talk some some GRiSO waffle and pat ourselves on the back for owning this wonderful motorcycle. Mark
Hi Mark, I will be happy to meet you both. Send me a message when you are here so that we can arrange a meeting point. Welcome!
Matias Sfregiato
Posts : 410 Join date : 2021-08-19
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:35 am
Hi,
I removed the exhaust line today to fix some leaks. When I removed the headers a took a peep at the exhaust valves. It's a fact that I made close to 1000 km last week and we had temperatures of 30-40ºC, but isn't this a bit too white? The lambda sensor took some heat as well...[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Running lean or is this common for an exhaust valve under the circumstances?... It's strange because I smell gasoline often when I ride and the spark plugs looked like chocolate last time I checked....but I removed the dbdkiller after that (even though the can has a catalyser...).
The guys at Mandelo runned out of welding wire, which creted a leak...The sealing washers and bushings from the headers were shot too... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Finally, any recomendations for the assembly of the header/graphite bushings/ connection pipe (below)? These bushings look pretty fragile... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:05 am
Hi,
What is the right way to assemble these graphite bushings: - you tap them into the Y tube and then insert the headers or... - you slide them into the headers and then insert the Y tube Any lubrication required (even though this graphite it's lubricant too...)? I have expanded the ends of the Y tube, but it still looks a bit tight. They slide ok over the header ends. It's the first time I'm doing this. The bushings look very fragile and I don't want to ruin them during the assembly....no spares [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:25 am
Pete Roper wrote:
Just one final point. If, after the tune-up, the engine performs poorly or displays any strange behaviours it is an indicator that something else is wrong with either the motor or the fuel delivery system.
Just because a machine is shiny and has had care lavished upon it doesn't mean that it is necessarily in perfect health and if it is misbehaving then whatever it is that is causing the misbehaviour has to be identified and fixed.
If you go to the internet and ask assistance in diagnosing an issue or understanding a problem it is NOT helpful, if you don't like the diagnosis offered, to fly off the handle and tell whoever is trying to help you that they are a c*nt who doesn't know what they are talking about. If you know it all already why are you asking questions on the internet? Many people will happily waste their lives trying to offer assistance. The advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!
If you cannot fix your own machine and are unwilling to take advice freely offered can I suggest that you take your machine to a qualified professional for remedial work rather than throwing a childish tantrum and blaming anything and anyone but yourself.
yea wanker poor bloke was only asking. Think that post was meant for me Mr Roper and I accept it almost unconditionally except was on the wrong day My bike was in no great shape when I bought it and although performed all the remdial work it deperately needed, stayed away from the fuel managment aspect until it was too late and fell out with beetle. My comments to you in no way insinuate you are an actual cunt its just part of my languge and a term of endearment Matey mentions inner plugs there is only one set of plugs or are there two sets on the 1100?
See now I forgot that the narrow band O2 sensor reads the trims "did I even know that to begin with" and that mapped this is manipulated by the Co trims instead. beetle you make no mention, this is educational stuff. Like a Power Commander that basicallly is a con to help implement maps of their creation, you create maps and use sofware not in a plastic box. You could even have mentioned that the O2 sensor is narrow band and so only reads about 2 degrees in either direction. Its basically an emissions control device designed to keep your mixture weak by using more fuel and less air.
My bike definitely has issues Mr Roper, going to try a plug swap see if that helps as seems to only occur when the engine gets hot with this particular map. There is too many differences beween maps. Its an intermittent affect, using beetles Mistral map prior to cleaning the throttle bodies it occurred thoughout the rev range. On factory maps O2 controlled there was little to no surgung whatsover the only weird thing was the revs rise to 3k once it reaches a certain temperature, like the O2 sensor has failed. or even the engine temperature sensor. Hmmm I will get to the bottom of it even if it means the throttle bodies have been detrimentally affected. Unless some nice person buys it in the mean time then like you say will have moved the problem on.
Lambda is deactivated in my maps. The O2 sensor has no affect. This forum is riddled with that information, if you'd bothered to look. Or asked nicely. You also don't understand how fuel injection works, especially the bit where you say:
Fuckwit wrote:
Its basically an emissions control device designed to keep your mixture weak by using more fuel and less air.
You got that arse backwards. What a surprise.
Oh, more education for you: when lambda is active (closed loop mode, when the engine is above 55 degrees, and intake temp is above ~17) the ECU only trims on a steady throttle. Therefore, you need to ride for some time. Oh, imagine your surprise when the engine starts to hunt with a factory map.
A con, you say? Well, that says more about you than I.
Oh, and your comment about getting maps from other disgruntled people in that rant on your thread to try and offload your self-made problems, only shows your desperation. Why do I bother? If you weren't such a complete fuckwit, I would have helped you with that, but no, you just have to slag-off all & sundry.
. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] . In GRiSO we trust! .
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:10 am
beetle wrote:
Lambda is deactivated in my maps. The O2 sensor has no affect. This forum is riddled with that information, if you'd bothered to look. Or asked nicely. You also don't understand how fuel injection works, especially the bit where you say:
Fuckwit wrote:
Its basically an emissions control device designed to keep your mixture weak by using more fuel and less air.
You got that arse backwards. What a surprise.
Oh, more education for you: when lambda is active (closed loop mode, when the engine is above 55 degrees, and intake temp is above ~17) the ECU only trims on a steady throttle. Therefore, you need to ride for some time. Oh, imagine your surprise when the engine starts to hunt with a factory map.
A con, you say? Well, that says more about you than I.
Oh, and your comment about getting maps from other disgruntled people in that rant on your thread to try and offload your self-made problems, only shows your desperation. Why do I bother? If you weren't such a complete fuckwit, I would have helped you with that, but no, you just have to slag-off all & sundry.
Oh, yes, the 1100 has dual plugs.
I freely admit am my own worst enemy and my gob is significantly larger than my brain. I've lost that many jobs because I cant get my head around the fact this bloke is the boss. Nearly got the sack today because of it and only started this new job 2 months ago.
I also admit I have limited knowledge of fuel injection and or managment systems. Only my Buells x2, harleys x2 had these systems, On the Buells a mate who is very intelligent dealt with that stuff, thats not to say I didnt learn something as he taught me years ago how to setup the bios on desktop pc's, back in the early days of the first Pentium the 100.
Was never certain about the lambda being disabled though my first harley had a Power Commander which had the lamda sensor removed and blanked off, it had the strangest tickover. My 2nd harley I purchased the V&H fuelpack 3 as virtually idiot proof and it retained the lamda. Tickover was nothing like it was with the Power Commander. Prior to purchasing the V&H played with some sensor eliminators which had the same effect as the Power Commander. I could never fathom whether it the V&H Fuel Pack worked with the small range of the O2 sensor or just disabled it like what your maps do, leaving the sensor in place avoids headaches with testing stations.
I merely meant Power Commanders are a con moreso the early variety as they seem to cause more problems than they solve Its just an electronic gizmo that stays hooked to the ecu that you feed maps thru. Some even have buttons for a manual tweak which is asking for chaos in uneducated hands.
I never looked into this GRiSO mapping stuff until just recently. Had I not pissed you off obviously I would not be in such a fuel injected mess. A map was offered to me so accepted, I still felt it was right to purchase a map from yourself as well. The balance went well enough if somewhat fiddly, I checked the tappets which were perfect, the plugs were golden brown. The bike had been running fine, it had some very minor slow speed surging with the factory map, power was ok, not as good as it is now and the fuel consumption was abysmal. The balance smoothed out the bike but once I backed up the map applied a different map and reset the trims all hell broke loose and chaos ensued.
Reverting back to my factory map was wonderful until the bike got to a certain temperature which happened by the end of the road, then with the clutch depressed the revs rose to 3000rpm which was hellish. Blocking the stepper off reduced that manic 3000rpm to 1500rpm which was still not great to my mind. I tried lots of different maps they all fluffed and popped, I tried Co trims up to +4 and down to -8 though really they seemed to have little effect if anything they made matters worse. Your Mistral map performed the worst surging throughout the entire rev range. That is until cleaned the throttle bodies having read about it on another forum that Pete Roper posted on. Now the bike only surges around 24 to 34mph and then only when it gets hot riding in heavy traffic in town. Fuel consumption has gone down as pretty much what I expected it to be. The low speed surging is not right though.
I have not tried any other maps since the throttle body clean, am still using the supplied Mistral map. My TPS reset showed my yellow painted screw had not been played with, TPS was at 4.8 prior to everything after a reset it was 4.8 after a throttle body clean it was 4.7. It fluctuates between 4.6 to 4.9 at idle and occassioanally hits 5.0. Most of the mess on the throttle bodies was on the left adjusting side, some backfiring was evident on the butterfly. There was a decent coating of soot after that butterfly. Oily residue was present on both sides and the outside buttefly springs only showed oil contamination uppermost on the insides.
As for knowing fuckall I belive these bikes use narrow band sensors like most of the general population of bikers with fuel injection use. That narrow band only controls a couple degrees in either direction, weak or rich, that racing machines use wide band O2 sensors that can control the entire fuel map. Am certain I know as much as your readme's allow me to know about guzzidiag, there is only so many buttons on it I can press. A fuckwit I maybe but I do have a decent grasp of some aspects as much as the next man as much as I have so far managed to glean. At least am willing to have a go, am not some chickenshit takes his bike to a dealers for every aspect of his motorcycles maintainance.
Other than that am at a complete loss, down to checking plugs/leads/caps.
Am a cunt I've always been a cunt, was never meant for this world, should have been dead ages ago, but for a certain reason am alive, am still a cunt though for that I apologise.
Last edited by Buellbloke on Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
lcjohnny GRiSO Capo
Posts : 1470 Join date : 2016-01-25 Age : 69
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:42 am
The left hand throttle body gets most oily gunk because on the 1200 the "vapour" breather from the separator box comes into the top left of the airbox.
On my GRiSO i found that the drillings to and from the airscrews (that you adjust to get tickover synchronisation) were blocked with oily gum. After i cleared it out I was finally able to set tickover synch with the airscrews!!
I use dial gauge manometersEbay for sale £16 pair of vaccum gauges to synch the carbs as i can fix the gauges to the handle bar clamp with a couple of rubber bands and ride around for 15 min watching the synchronisation in action (and not pissing off my neighbours). I have never found an older bike that synchronises perfectly at all revs so I then choose at what revs i want the bike to be most synchronised.
At the lastest service i (stupidly ) decided to synchronise at 4,000 rpm + so now it is whistle smooth at 80mph....... but buzzes and tingles through the bars in town ..... I need to correct that.
I am using Beetle's FU2 Termignoni map with the standard 8 silencer and after lots of experimenting -15 on the CO setting. I am happy with this map = the bike is smooth and thrusty 1 or 2 up with 44-47mpg (6 to 6.4 L per 100km)
Buellbloke likes this post
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:55 am
lcjohnny wrote:
The left hand throttle body gets most oily gunk because on the 1200 the "vapour" breather from the separator box comes into the top left of the airbox.
My stepper motor breathes from the top left of the airbox? there is no return on that side the return is on the right side?
Umm innit
Oh my wtf I Wonder if that has anything to do with my idle issues surging issues even? I always wondered why I had so much trouble getting that return pipe to stay on that side. When I bought the bike it was off that side and the stepper was mounted on the left side, weird one, doubt it would make a massive difference though? Anyone? I guess I am an incompetant twat
Could be if the pipe to the stepper has folded and closed off because it is run the wrong way...
Thing is pretty weird it fits under the bracket of the throttle body then wraps around it, aint no bends or kinks in it though. Its quite a decent bore rubber hose though does seem to get relatively loose fitting on the stepper when it get very hot.
The left hand throttle body gets most oily gunk because on the 1200 the "vapour" breather from the separator box comes into the top left of the airbox.
On my GRiSO i found that the drillings to and from the airscrews (that you adjust to get tickover synchronisation) were blocked with oily gum. After i cleared it out I was finally able to set tickover synch with the airscrews!!
I use dial gauge manometersEbay for sale £16 pair of vaccum gauges to synch the carbs as i can fix the gauges to the handle bar clamp with a couple of rubber bands and ride around for 15 min watching the synchronisation in action (and not pissing off my neighbours). I have never found an older bike that synchronises perfectly at all revs so I then choose at what revs i want the bike to be most synchronised.
At the lastest service i (stupidly ) decided to synchronise at 4,000 rpm + so now it is whistle smooth at 80mph....... but buzzes and tingles through the bars in town ..... I need to correct that.
I am using Beetle's FU2 Termignoni map with the standard 8 silencer and after lots of experimenting -15 on the CO setting. I am happy with this map = the bike is smooth and thrusty 1 or 2 up with 44-47mpg (6 to 6.4 L per 100km)
I removed the air screws as part of the cleanup, right side was closed left counted the turns and re balanced after. So you ride and stop to adjust the air screw which is highest still, then ride some more until you get what your after at a specific rpm? You think my low speed surging is to do with poor low throttle balance? -15 Co trims what was this to correct assume it weakens the mixture?
Ride and stop adjust the thottle till perfect synch. Then TPS then airscrew for balance at idle. Always in that order: throttle choke synch for airflow, then use tps to tell the ecu that both throttles are closed. Then use the airscrew to force a smooth idle.
Changing the CO setting shortens (-) or lengthens (+) the fuel injection pulse. Has more effect at low to mid revs. In my case dropping it filled a 2.5k rpm hole and smoothed tickover ( and improved mpg). I tried less extreme settings but this is best on mine and gives pale brown plugs
Ride and stop adjust the thottle till perfect synch. Then TPS then airscrew for balance at idle. Always in that order: throttle choke synch for airflow, then use tps to tell the ecu that both throttles are closed. Then use the airscrew to force a smooth idle.
Changing the CO setting shortens (-) or lengthens (+) the fuel injection pulse. Has more effect at low to mid revs. In my case dropping it filled a 2.5k rpm hole and smoothed tickover ( and improved mpg). I tried less extreme settings but this is best on mine and gives pale brown plugs
So your saying instead of adjustiug the bell crank screw at 3.5 -4k revs you ride at 3k revs stop make an adjustment and keep riding and stopping until its perfect? Do you adjust idle with the same set of gauges?
My arms aren't long enough to hold the throttle, watch the tacho and reach down to turn the adjuster lol.
So i ride a bit, decide which throttle is opening first , stop, give screw a tweek,. Repeat till happy.
Yes i use the same gauges for setting idle.
Btw one prob with dial gauges is they are all slightly different. So if you go that way you need to connect both gauges to the same choke and check the difference one of mine reads 3% higher [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Last edited by lcjohnny on Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
My arms aren't long enough to hold the throttle, watch the tacho and reach down to turn the adjuster lol.
So i ride a bit, decide which throttle is opening first , stop, give screw a tweek,. Repeat till happy.
Yes i use the same gauges for setting idle.
Btw one prob with dial gauges is they are all slightly different. So if you go that way you need to connect both gauges to the same choke and check the difference one of mine reads 3% higher
You get a biker mate to assist you. Already bought a share of a morgan carbtune 4 row, one of these is cheap enough to purchase for my own amusment and see how that goes, cheers dude
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:48 am
beetle wrote:
Oh, and your comment about getting maps from other disgruntled people in that rant on your thread to try and offload your self-made problems, only shows your desperation. Why do I bother? If you weren't such a complete fuckwit, I would have helped you with that, but no, you just have to slag-off all & sundry.
I wish I could start over with restraint, I am a fuckwit the only actual friends I have are peole who know me, tolerate me like on here, know my bark is bullshit. Am a pussy cat, the girlfriend calls me a princess and a drama queen so guess that about sums me up. Please Mark please pretty please help me, make that map you was gonna make for me xx
Sigh. Get your stepper sorted. Valves set at 0.1mm inlet and 0.15mm exhaust (before you balance the throttle bodies), then balance the throttle bodies. Don't ride it to balance. Do it the normal way.
Picked up some new plugs whether needed them or not, will check leads and connections. Had some original grips inc throttle piece on back order for several months just arrived so will follow Pete's throttle cable setup guide as alway been a bit amiss in that department. Originally bought some Oxford monster grips but only 1mm thicker, purchased some sponge sleeve slip over things and that extra 1mm was 1mm too much.
For anyone interested Stein Dense have original grips for a GRiSO in stock now!
Subject: Re: TPS reset question Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:30 am
beetle wrote:
Sigh. Get your stepper sorted. Valves set at 0.1mm inlet and 0.15mm exhaust (before you balance the throttle bodies), then balance the throttle bodies. Don't ride it to balance. Do it the normal way.
Follow this procedure: LINKY
After all that, we can discuss.
Hey Mr Beetle Sir.
Performed a tappet adjustment last week as well as Pete Ropers throttle cable adjustment and re balanced and TPS reset today. Bike always says 4.8.
Startup and tickover are spot on the money, riding and clutch pull tickover is spot on too!
Not that I like the high about 2k startup as it does it every startup, it takes about 10 seconds to drop down, then a few more before it settles into 1250rpm.
Anything low below about 35mph results in surging, quite extreme surging occassionally.
Get the odd fluff and pop on the over run.
The tappet adjustment made no difference except it put the TPS way out oh yes and it made the top end quieter.
Balance wasnt far out from when I last did it, tickover about a turn and a half on the left air screw.
Co trims in either direction results in rough running.
Subject: Re: TPS reset question 
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:26 pm
...
there is only one set of plugs or are there two sets on the 1100?
) decided to synchronise at 4,000 rpm + so now it is whistle smooth at 80mph....... but buzzes and tingles through the bars in town ..... I need to correct that. 
