TPS reset question

Hi gents,

Yesterday I balanced my throttle bodies and did a final TPS reset with engine off after having finished the procedure. After starting the engine TPS changed from 4.8 to 5.2 at idle. Now I'm not quite sure whether TPS has to be reset with engine on or off after syncing throttle bodies....any suggestions?

Do not reset the TPS with engine running. Fluctuations while the engine is running is normal behaviour. Mine sits at 5.1/5.2 at idle, and I'm not concerned.

Exactly the same as mine does, good to know having done TPS reset the right way, thx for the info Beetle!

Hi,

I'm reactivating this old topic to ask for help to the people more iluminated on the subject
I read here frequently about making the TPS reset. I have done too, now and then, and it seems to improve the engine response.
When I installed the Beetle map on the ECU, I had to do the TPS reset, and also the self-learning parameters reset.
Finally the question: is there any advantage in reseting the sel-learning parameters now and then or you just do it if you change the map, i.e.?

Thanks and BR,
Matias

If you're running an open loop map like a Beetlemap there should be no need to reset the self learning parameters as there is no manipulation of the fueling by lambda input so nothing is 'Learnt'.

What Pete said.

Ok. Thanks guys.

Hi all,

Beetle: I have installed your map GRiSO-FU2-4V-8C44.2017.10.13 when I assembled a QD can a couple of years ago (pict attached), and the bike has been running pretty good on it.
I had the dbKiller installed until a couple of days ago, but now I removed it. I made a small test drive and it seemed OK. Question: do you think the bike will run OK with this map in such conditions?

Second question: In a previous mail from this thread, Pete was saying that "this is an open loop map" ant that there would be no "manipulation of the fuelling by lambda sensor input". Does this mean that the bike could run without lambda sensor with this map?

Finally: I see some posts referring to the TB balancing. What are the symptoms of unballanced TBs? Does the balancing requires special diagnostic tools?

Thanks in advance for any input.

BR,
Matias

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Throttle body (TB) synchronisation is a key part of the service.

It is really important on any multi and gets more important the fewer cylinders you have and the bigger they are.
It gives you equal power and response on all cylinders giving you better pick-up, smoother running and better fuel consumption (the engine will be quicker but it may feel slower, because it is smoother).

There is little point in doing TB balancing unless the plugs have been cleaned and gapped and the valve clearances have been done.

You will need some form of vacuum gauge or manometer on each cylinder.  There is a useful tech string on this site and I think Pete has done a Youtube video on the subject.

Thanks Jon.
Beetle (Pete?) can you tell me something about the map questions?

BR,
Matias

You can remove the lambda probe and install a bung if you want. It won't cause any issues.

Running without the dB killer may cause it to run a bit more lean. I would check the plugs after a long ride.
Alternatively, PM me your email address and I'll send you the no-dB-killer map.

Matias wrote:

Finally: I see some posts referring to the TB balancing. What are the symptoms of unballanced TBs? Does the balancing requires special diagnostic tools?

Thanks in advance for any input.

BR,
Matias

Something that I think probably needs pointing out is that 'Tuning' the motor is a holistic thing. It is the sum of the individual steps involved and isn't something that can be achieved piecemeal.

We see a lot of posts here from people who seem worried or confused, or simply don't understand what they are doing. That's fine. Nobody is born understanding this stuff, but especially with the, let's call them *Electronic* aspects of tuning it's almost as if people think what they are doing is some sort of 'Black Magic'!

A fine example of this is re-calibrating the TPS. Often novices will of got Guzzidiag, (Or other tooling.) up and running and the first thing they will do is check the live data and maybe see that the TPS value isn't what they have read as correct so they will rush into the Actors menu and recalibrate it in the seeming belief that it will make some radical difference to how the engine will run.

It won't.

At least it won't unless someone has previously buggered about with something else they shouldn't of and if they've done that re-calibrating the TPS will probably make things infinitely worse!

Calibrating the TPS, balancing the throttlebodies, even remapping, are all part of the WHOLE tune-up procedure and unless the entire process is undertaken performing individual steps will achieve little and may even be counter productive.

I'm sure I've gone through the tuning procedure before, probably half a dozen times, but perhaps I need to go through it again with a bit more detailed explanation of exactly what one is trying to achieve with each step.

If I may ask, what is the correct order of the different parts of a tune? I have done the beetle map for my bike and it is going in tomorrow to our local shop for valve adjust, tps reset, and throttle body sync.
GRiSO is a 2017 with 2500 miles from new and needs a smoother transition between off throttle and throttle in the first few gears especially. I love the bike but it is tough to ride in town.

Sharp transition between off/on throttle can often be minimised by removing as much free play in the cables as possible without effecting the idle speed as the bars are moved lock to lock.

Generally speaking, when they were delivered, there was always a huge amount of free play in both the opening and closing cables. You can feel this by lightly grasping the throttle and twisting it back and forth. You will probably be able to feel radial movement before you can feel the cable load up as it starts to work against the return spring and open the throttle plates.

The trick is to loosen the adjusters on the cables up by the twistgrip and then wind the adjuster on the opening cable out until you can feel next to none of that radial movement before the cable starts working the throttle cam on the TB's. Once that is set use the adjuster on the closing cable to remove slack in the closing cable as felt at the adjuster.

Start the bike and let it idle. Swing the bars from lock to check the idle doesn't rise, (If it does you need to add a turn or two of free play into the adjusters.).

As far as tuning is concerned first set the valves to 4 thou inlet and 6 thou exhaust. Change the plugs. Connect your manometer and diagnostic tooling. Close the air bleeds.

Start the engine and warm it up to over 60*C

Balance the TB's.

Re-calibrate the TPS.

Clear the trims, (If running a closed loop map.)

Open the air bleed on whichever side has the highest manifold depression at idle.

DO NOT TRY TO ALTER THE IDLE SPEED BY MESSING ABOUT WITH THE THROTTLESTOP SCREWS The ONLY things you physically move on the TB's are the air bleed screws and the bell crank screw.

beetle wrote:

Alternatively, PM me your email address and I'll send you the no-dB-killer map.

Great Beetle. Thanks.
I going to send you my email

I have recently adjusted the valves and replaced the outer spark plugs.
I have already ordered the inner plugs (the ones on the bike have 43.000 km...) and will replace them soon.
I am also replacing the sealing washers and bushings on the exhaust headers7connection tube because I believe I have some leaks there...
I would like to do the TB balancing. I'm just looking for an affordable set of manometers...
Then I will just reset the TPS (no need to clear the trims, once I am using Beetle's map, right Pete?)

When you first upload the map the trims should be cleared as the ecu will of stored them. Once it is running an open loop map you don't need to clear them again.

As for manometer? Morgan Carbtune is a very good and affordable product.

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Thanks Pete,
I will look for a seller close to me.

Thanks for sending the map Beetle. Great support...
I already ordered the Morgan Carbtune gage Pete. I found a seller in Spain.
Looking forward to receive the goods and get things going

Just one final point. If, after the tune-up, the engine performs poorly or displays any strange behaviours it is an indicator that something else is wrong with either the motor or the fuel delivery system.

Just because a machine is shiny and has had care lavished upon it doesn't mean that it is necessarily in perfect health and if it is misbehaving then whatever it is that is causing the misbehaviour has to be identified and fixed.

If you go to the internet and ask assistance in diagnosing an issue or understanding a problem it is NOT helpful, if you don't like the diagnosis offered, to fly off the handle and tell whoever is trying to help you that they are a c*nt who doesn't know what they are talking about. If you know it all already why are you asking questions on the internet? Many people will happily waste their lives trying to offer assistance. The advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!

If you cannot fix your own machine and are unwilling to take advice freely offered can I suggest that you take your machine to a qualified professional for remedial work rather than throwing a childish tantrum and blaming anything and anyone but yourself.

Er …. Pete? Did you post this in the wrong thread?

Nah. I wasn't having a go at anyone. Just following through to the conclusion. If I seemed to be having a go at Matias I apologise to him sincerely, it was not my intention to be combative.

Thing is it is important to get the tune right, especially with a machine running EFI as the engine management is so much more precise than on machines of yore with their shitty, fast wearing carburettors, antediluvian ignition systems and stretchy cables controlling their throttles. Such a tune can't be done piecemeal but even if it is completed properly there may still be other underlying issues affecting how an engine behaves. All I was really trying to say is 'Don't shoot the messenger'! Sorry, I've had a bit of it lately and it may of made me a bit tetchy. Not meaning to take it out on anyone.....

Hi Pete,
Jesus, you had a bad day uhh ?....
I am 60 years old, so from the time of the shitty carburators and prediluvian ignition systems, and I am very thankful for all the advice I get in this forum to cope with the new generation machines.
I ask for advice, I digest it, and if it makes sense to me I follow it, at my own risk.
I will never come back and blame whoever generously gave me advice. Never did, never will...

As I said Matias, my above comments weren't directed at anyone, least of all you!  I was simply trying to explain why it's important to look at things holistically and saying that as someone who tries to advise it can be very frustrating if people, sometimes seemingly wilfully, misconstrue that advice and try to 'Shoot the messenger'. If I came across as a raving shithead I apologise. (It wouldn't be the first time I've behaved like a raging asshole! Won't be the last either. Although I do try not to be! )

Actually I have been a bit preoccupied. Michael had to go back into hospital for an urgent procedure at very short notice and I always worry when his wheels start coming off, (Figuratively!). Needless to say we have work backing up. Man I want to retire......

Hope everything turns out for the best Pete...
Just don't retire from this forum, OK? ...