High Idle Issue

The 2230G03 map, which all my 8V GRiSO maps use a a base map, has an 'idle rise when clutch pulled in' built into the software. This should raise the idle about 300-400 RPM when active.

As far as these random high idles, the short answer is, I don't know. My GRiSO does it too. It bugs me. As Paul says, it could be crap in the throttle bodies or stepper system. It could be the the ECU triggering it via the stepper due to some alignment of temp-fuel-pressure-pixies in the engine status that I have not anticipated.

The fact that I have a radial clutch master and the switch is not functional makes it even more infuriating.

beetle wrote:

The 2230G03 map, which all my 8V GRiSO maps use a a base map, has an 'idle rise when clutch pulled in' built into the software. This should raise the idle about 300-400 RPM when active.

Wonder what the factory's rationale is for this.  I would think most folks don't need any help taking off from a stop, and it only increases the "clunk" when you put the bike in gear.

I am getting the same issue on a freshly rollerised 2011 1200. After it came back from Valley Moto it was fine, but the ambient temps were 0-+5 in the morning and +7 by the afternoon and the idle was fine. We have had +20 here for the past week and the Clutch in idle is 2000 rpm and clutch out is about 1700.

Hmm, topical. The last few rides on my bike has the same issue. Yesterday morning, I decided to pull the stepper air hose from the airbox and see what happens when I block it. Surprisingly, when I blocked it the idle returned to normal.

So, from what I can deduce, the stepper is not working correctly. I believe the treatment for this is to spray some very light valve oil (sometimes called trumpet oil) into the hose while the engine is running. I had none so an 8mm bolt went into it for the daily commute. This is not really an issue when the engine is warm, but sometimes a touch of the throttle is required to get the engine to fire up, and judicious touching of the throttle until engine warms up enough to drop into an idle, albeit, quite low.

Note to self, get some valve lubricant today!

bellyhook wrote:

I am getting the same issue on a freshly rollerised 2011 1200. After it came back from Valley Moto it was fine, but the ambient temps were 0-+5 in the morning and +7 by the afternoon and the idle was fine. We have had +20 here for the past week and the Clutch in idle is 2000 rpm and clutch out is about 1700.

Are you still tunning the stock map? Have you checked things like the TPS setting and reset the self learning Parameters, (Trims)?

Pete

I have found that reflashing the map can fix it too. Fuctifino.

How long since you had the TB's off for a good clean? And where do you keep your engine oil level?

If the oil is more than half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' marks a fair bit of it will get puked out into the airbag and can clog both the stepper and the butterflies. If the butterflies aren't closing fully and the TPS is reset it has the same effect as messing about with the throttle stop screw!

First thing I'd do is get the TB's off and give them a really good clean with carby cleaner, spray some through the stepper too. Make sure that the butterflies and the manifold they sit in are scrupulously clean then reassemble it all and check the TPS reading. Betcha it will then be a lot lower than it should be due to the butterflies being closed further than they were. A TPS reset should then take everything back to normal IF that is the cause. No guarantees but it often is.

Pete

Well, call me stupid, but I fixed mine. Purchased some LiquiMoly carburettor and valve cleaner from wot-a-lot-a-crap today. Started Black Betty with the stepper hose disconnected, high idle, poured in about 10-15ml of said fluid, puff of blue/white smoke, and now a perfect idle, dropped down in seconds.

Hose back on to the airbox, LiquiMoly there for next time. Shit Eh?

The Sticky Stepper Blues ? Keep us posted Tony

Aint got dem steppa blues, no mor'

Well - surprise. I just performed a cold start and immediately fired up, idled at circa 1600 rpm and after 30 seconds was down at 1200 rpm. I'd call that a win!

Went for a wee flog gentlemanly run (totally unlike me!) and high idle appears to be absent altogether. In fact the idle seems to be more consistent, without hunting, which may be an indicator that said stepper motor may be needing attention. In hindsight (love looking up the retrospectoscope), last time I had GuzziDiag running, the target rpm was steady but the variance was up/down/up/down and on and on and on and on (you get the picture).

So if yours is hunting, even a little, it may indicate the stepper is starting to "stick" but easily remedied.

so, I thought I'd give Tony's snake oil a shot..
was initially underwhelmed by the lack of promised white/blue smoke.... mine was a puff of black...
when the idle settled back down, and stepper pipe back in place, I went for a short lap
Tony is a magician!!! All is good!! woo hoo!
Next morning, cold start worked as normal, then off for a quick 100k run to get her up to temperature -this is Tasmania after all (actually went fly fishing for the day )
Back into town for the final run home.... high idle decides to join us for the ride
Into the cave, off with the pipe and out with the funnel, and a few more dribbles of snake oil, 3ml at a time, for a few times...
Yesterday, good cold start, shorter lap around town... random high idle remains onboard
So, I guess that a dirty stepper may not be the issue here.
I added the recommended amount of snake oil into the tank -that is where it designed to go after all...
Another short(ish) blat around and I guess the injectors are clean now, she seems happy.
The rest of the can will be going into the Landcruiser tomorrow.
sigh.

Hello Pete,
The bike just came back from a rollerising at Chilliwack with Gord Hill. TPS was checked. I will have a look at the oil level and into the airbox. It seems odd that so many get this problem at similar times. I would love it to be as simple as excess oil venting into the airbox. Mind you the stock dipstick is about helpful as a fart in a space suit.
Thanks

an update on Tony's Snake Oil Challenge....
so after a weeks running and two fuel tanks later (read almost 900km Ron),
the high idle has only raised its ugly head on a very few occasions, still as random as ever,
but far less often...
so did the original operation prove successful?
was it a good couple of runs with snake oil in the first tank?
is it the definite change of season here, re:air temps and humidity?
is it BP's 'new improved' fuel that cleans as you drive...
nah, couldn't be that, I didn't put it in there!!

so after a weeks running and two fuel tanks later (read almost 900km Ron),

I understand you have a bigger tank, so In good australian tradition........ Get Rooted
I can get 300 kms out of the 17 litre tank if I ride like an old lady, life's too short for that though, and I'd feel I was dishonouring the good work the FIG did to make it all work so nicely ( play heavenly music )
So Far No high idle issues here, 1100 rpm idle ( Indicated ) Clutch in = 1200 rpm. Maybe this is programed in for buttheads like me so I don't stall at the lights  

waterbottle wrote:

1100 rpm idle ( Indicated ) Clutch in = 1200 rpm. Maybe this is programed in for buttheads like me so I don't stall at the lights  

Aye, blossom. It's programmed in.

There is a story here Beetle
I muffed a quick take off at the lights a while back when splitting lanes, so snatched the clutch in to prevent the engine stalling, while continuing to open throttle, clutch back out ........
The resulting wheelie across the intersection would have looked spectacular, effortless, apart from having to scrape out my undies when I got back home

After two seasons of fighting it, I think I finally found the reason for my intermittent high idle. I did all the usua - cleaned the throttle bodies, reset tps, squirted carb cleaner down the stepper motor, etc. 4 or 5 times. It would be ok and then start acting up again. I noticed it would seem to appear after a sustained high speed run, or when the weather was very hot. A couple weeks ago, I adjusted the valves, reset the throttle bodies, changed plugs, etc getting it ready to take down to John Day next week. It ran well and idled fine, but seemed to be getting louder. I rode it down to Spokane ( about 85 miles) and upon entering town, the high idle was back. Coming home, I stopped to fill up with ethanol free in Colville and it was idling high and sounding really ragged. When I got home, I put it on the rack and was looking at the muffler. I removed the shield on the midpipe, and found the midpipe was completely sheared in two near where the two header pipes transition to one. Remembering back to when the high idle first appeared, I think that it began to crack then, and would open and close back up depending on the temperature, rough roads, etc. I got it welded up and gusseted at the welding shop in Kettle Falls ($20) and put it back together. I also reconnected the stepper motor hose. It sounds great, runs great and idles right around 11 or 12 hundred. $20 well spent! I am guessing with that crack in the pipe in front of the oxygen sensor, it was getting an incorrect air mixture at that point and sending the ecu false readings. The crack would open up sometimes more than others and that is why it was so intermmitent. The real test will be going down to John Day next week, but it really feels like it is cured. ...I hope...

Simon Abeid
Kettle Falls, WA

If you're running a closed loop map it will almost certainly be the culprit as the ECU will be pouring fuel in for a perceived overly lean condition. At some point the fuel increase will cause the ignition to advance and voila, higher idle. It's one of the symptoms that makes it hard for Mark to second guess whether to add or remove fuel for the open loop maps if they suffer from high idle issues.

Pete

beetle wrote:

I have found that reflashing the map can fix it too. Fuctifino.

After having a tad high idle and revs started hanging by 2000 when engine braking, I just flashed the latest map again and voilá, steady 1250 and no more dragging. Go figure!

I have this high idle problem since a week or so. Is temperature dependent: when I start the bike up in the cool morning it is all fine. Engine rumbles along smoothly around 1250-1300 rpm.  But after 10 minutes riding it starts to idle at 1750-2000.  Clutch in or out doesn't make a difference.

Beetle map, TBs are balanced, TPS is reset.  I should probably try some carb-cleaner snake oil. Can one of you tell me (or show me in a picture) where to pour some of this magic stuff?  Where is the "stepper motor"?

Here 'tis. Item 20. See the hose (red arrow) leading to the airbox? Pop it off and add a bit of LiquiMoly carb/valve cleaner in there. Also check the airbox for oil.


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Thanks Beetle!!  You are great!  I will do as suggested and feed back!

With the 1100's it's quite likely to be stepper motor related. They all had the earlier aluminium bodied stepper which for some reason is much more prone to sticking than the later, plastic bodied, ones.

How many miles/Km since you last had the TB's off for a good clean? If more than Han 20,000km it's probably time to do it. Just don't fiddle or move the throttle stop screw and you should be golden.

Pete

Not sure when the TBs were cleaned last. At least 15,000 kms ago, as I have never done it. So yes: that is indeed on my todo-list. But it will have to wait until September after I am back from a family vacation and I have some more time. For now, I thought I could give this carb-cleaning snake oil a try.
I will stay far away from the throttle stop screw, for sure!!