Hello Grissistas

Just about the EXACT same situation that I was in keenerkeen.
I have contemplated trying to get a 1200 but no, I don't need to. I can just do the little things to the 1100 that any GRiSO would need done and just rock the Hell out of it.

DM

Hell, there's nothing wrong with the 1100's! Nothing wrong with the 850's! You just have to row them harder and they would be better with the Bellagio motor in but a GRiSO, regardless of capacity, is still a GRiSO!

Pete

Pete Roper wrote:

Hell, there's nothing wrong with the 1100's! Nothing wrong with the 850's! You just have to row them harder and they would be better with the Bellagio motor in but a GRiSO, regardless of capacity, is still a GRiSO!

Pete

hey Pete ...I being still a noob somewhat to Guzzi , whats the diff between the Bellagio motor and my 1100 GRiSO?


is there anything that i could read up on re the different Guzzi engines?

The 850 only uses one plug per cylinder and the bore and stroke as well I believe are different, when I get a chance I'll dig the figures out.

Thing is that the 940 Bellagio motor is a truly fantastic beast, a little known swan-song for the 2V pushrod motor. It knocks ANY previous 2V into a cocked hat. With bigger TB's and a decent map it could be the *Ultimate* 2-valver.

I'm hoping I can creepily 'Groom' Wayne into this mindset

Pete

I don't need you corrupting me with wild thoughts of Bellagio motor into my GRiSO you naughty boy Pete

Hey Roper, I'm bloody watching you.
One day I might just drop a turbo on it, that'll stop the bullshit.

DM;
Cali Stone: 1064cc (B&S 92 x 80), 2V, single plug, 40mm TB's, Staintune H pipe and mufflers, K&N & open air box PCIII dual maps. Made 69rwhp, 60ft/lbs torque, power was falling off after 7k.

Bellagio: 936cc (B&S 95 x 66), 2V, twin plugs, same 40mm TB's, custom pipes, same K&N + open air box, PC-V dual maps. Makes 76rwhp, 59ft/lbs torque, hits the 8,300 rev limiter quick as you can blink, all on the same dyno by the same tuner.

When I first rode a stock Bellagio, I thought it would lack the torque of the Cali with it's extra 128cc capacity, yet bum dyno says they are the same. Well my tuned versions are near identical.
Biggest gains have been in the midrange, just where I like to ride.

I had always thought V11 heads with their bigger valves and 45mm TB's would be the ducks guts, just add the 2nd plug. Although I was assuming Bellagio had the Cali small valve heads. Could be wrong.

Nice.
I'm glad to hear about that 2nd plug. Which I have.

Off to Battle, near Hastings, today to look at an overpriced, low mileage 1100.

In my opinion, the 8v 1200 motor is in real terms far superior to the 4v or 2v whatever you call it pushrod engine. It's more refined and when you give it the bifters, it goes like shit off a stick but still has the Guzzi character.

Tolle09 wrote:

In my opinion, the 8v 1200 motor is in real terms far superior to the 4v or 2v whatever you call it pushrod engine. It's more refined and when you give it the bifters, it goes like shit off a stick but still has the Guzzi character.

Ok, who flung dung now?
Back in the day when CARC was first released, I test rode all the models back to back. And again when all the 4V/8V 1200's came out.
Yes all these modern bikes have more power than the old 2V push rod 936cc Bellagio, but it was smooth and sweet.
Even the dealer agreed all the others were poorly tuned vibrating farting pieces of shit.

If Beetle had been there on the day with his current magic, I would have bought a GRiSO.

I would of thought that if a dealer said they were poorly tuned it said more about his dealership than the bikes

Having said that the original map for the 8V was really horrid. I don't know what they were thinking!

Pete

Tolle09 wrote:

In my opinion, the 8v 1200 motor is in real terms far superior to the 4v or 2v whatever you call it pushrod engine. It's more refined and when you give it the bifters, it goes like shit off a stick but still has the Guzzi character.

Coupling the word "refined" with the GRiSO always makes me wonder.

That is not criticism of the GRiSO 8v, but, to me, at least, it is way too visceral a machine to be "refined," and that, again, is its ruffian charm.

Obviously, if one has in mind engineering, I suppose more went into it, but the most "refined" (in the sense I think of that word) motorcycle I own is my first-gen Norge.  Old pushrod to be sure, but, as ghezzi says, sure is "smooth and sweet."

The GRiSO is a brute; the Norge, a gentler beast.  Love 'em both for what they are ... and aren't.

Bill

Guzzi for me was always a motorcycle that produced soul , a life of its own and more than most other brands.
The more recent big block engine the 8v 1200 is certainly a step in the right direction , and it and improvements to come will help to ensure that the mark will continue, the competition is very tough and outright  performance is important to those with the $ to spend.
Guzzi has also other than the above the ability to draw riders that seek something more special in a motorcycle , perhaps you could call it personality or soul a feeling that all the engines produce coupled with good components and that is what has drawn me to Guzzi .
I have the GRiSO 1100 because the timing was right and the funds were available , but at the same time i have what I think Guzzi has always offered ,the ability to make me smile every time i ride.

Keener

That is not criticism of the GRiSO 8v, but, to me, at least, it is way too visceral a machine to be "refined," and that, again, is its ruffian charm. wrote:

I don't want to turn this into a pissing match but my G12 is akin to riding a coffee maker compared to my V11 LeMans. The V11 is a jack hammer crossed with a locomotive and thanks to the carbon can Mistrals sounds every bit the part. I have owned the V11 from new and will never get rid of it for that raw animal feel and sublime back road handling. Then I get on my G12 and rip off a 800 km day and it feels like I riding a living room sofa that has sublime handling. Love em both but the word 'visceral' goes to the LeMans.

Hey Frypan, if that's you "IN" the chair (avatar) then you have to be totally bonkers, so your opinion don't count.

My Guzzi love affair started with a new MkIII Le Mans, I have owned another since, and may do so again. Any refined bikes I have owned in between have all seemed ........................... poofy!

There's a raw animal side to Guzzi's, it's mechanical and it's real and it has character. I also love the fact the early Le Mans series (I, II, III) are small and low and compact. Now all big blocks are furquen gi-norm-arse.

So I will try and make a wannabe Le Mans out of my Bellagio, s'pose it's all relative to ones own personal experience really. In 30 years time some young punk in his fifties will try and tell me his latest hydrogen powered flux capacitor boosted Goozi is the ducks guts, I'll just smile and say to myself, "What a wonderful World" (Thanks Loiu)

It's all relative. Frypan, ride a modern 4 cylinder snorefest from Japan and you soon be lulled into a soporific myopia. Then gets on ya GRiSO and feels the viscerality.

I kinda agree with frypan but not so much maybe. But I have an 1100 2V/cyl.
The FIRST thing I noticed about the G11 was how smooth it was!!!!
And I suspect the 1200s are smoother (more like sofas than the 1100)
Even tho my G11 is the smoothest Guzzi I have ever spanked up into the red it is still a Guzzi and did NOT have the soul bred out of it the way the 1999 Laverda 750S did.

DM

Yes that is me 35 years ago and 35 pounds lighter apparently due to the lack of brain cells. Speaking of which, ever notice how leather shrinks with age?
So I think we all agree Jap 4 - as exciting as being comatose. The rest is relative.
Oh I forgot to throw in my -72 Eldo - A cross between a combine and a pile driver, I just love driving that bike. Suspension almost as good as the chair. Have managed to embarrass a few novice sportbike riders with that old beast.

frypan wrote:

Yes that is me 35 years ago and 35 pounds lighter apparently due to the lack of brain cells. Speaking of which, ever notice how leather shrinks with age?:

No! Turned up at a pre ride briefing a few years ago, strutting my stuff and proudly declaring to one and all, that I could still fit into my full leathers I got for my 21st birthday, in 1978.
Then eventually one smart prick piped up, "Just proves you been a fat c*#t all ya life".

Mmmm, shut me up that did.

frypan wrote:

I don't want to turn this into a pissing match but my G12 is akin to riding a coffee maker compared to my V11 LeMans. The V11 is a jack hammer crossed with a locomotive and thanks to the carbon can Mistrals sounds every bit the part. I have owned the V11 from new and will never get rid of it for that raw animal feel and sublime back road handling. Then I get on my G12 and rip off a 800 km day and it feels like I riding a living room sofa that has sublime handling. Love em both but the word 'visceral' goes to the LeMans.

You're on to something here for sure.  I've always loved the sound and feel of the V11 spineys, they sound and feel like fury.  It's very visceral.  The biggest factor there is the 2 into 2 exhaust.  There is something about the way a Guzzi sings when the pulses are separated.  The GRiSO with it's 2 into 1 configuration sounds more like a NASCAR V-8 when it's screaming.  It's a vicious sound, but it can't compare to the clean pulses that pop from the spine frames.  At times, I am envious.  But then I hear the GRiSO's siren song and all is lost.  Bring on the banshees.

frypan wrote:

Yes that is me 35 years ago and 35 pounds lighter apparently due to the lack of brain cells. Speaking of which, ever notice how leather shrinks with age?
So I think we all agree Jap 4 - as exciting as being comatose. The rest is relative.
Oh I forgot to throw in my -72 Eldo - A cross between a combine and a pile driver, I just love driving that bike. Suspension almost as good as the chair. Have managed to embarrass a few novice sportbike riders with that old beast.

Those damn loop frames.
I had a 1970 Ambo.
What a TRACTOR. And I loved riding it. What the Hell was the matter with me??

Perhaps a used tenni 1200 8V with the roller tappet kit already installed if you can find one. Hate getting off her at the end of the day. She's a sexy bad-ass that will not disappoint in the way she rides! Visceral and addictive in spades!

Beetle
"Those pushrod engines are so last decade."
Come mate, stone the bloody crows, its last century.

Harry

Hey, I AM! last century.

Assuming there's no 14 YO members - we're ALL last century! Last millenium as a matter of fact
Come to think of it, that'd be a good biker gang name for old-timers: The Millenium Falcons.