2007 Norge - ECU 44 code

I would change both the start relay and the start assist relay

Relays are not expensive -

Bit of an update on this

Decided to start from the beginning and re-check everything from battery to ECU.

Pin 87 on the Injection relay - 12V,  relay was also function-tested off the bike
Pin 2 on the Starter relay - 12V, relay was also function-tested off the bike
Pin 1 on the ECU blue plug (left side as if you are sitting on it) - 12V wired from Pin 2 of the starter relay.

All wires tested for resistance with nothing unacceptable. ECU ground wire thoroughly cleaned, ECU body cleaned where it touches the ground wire. ECU shows strong continuity to ground with low resistance (used the threads on the tank bolt-hole to check.

The only thing left that it could see it being now from this wiring diagram is the ECU itself.

I am going to call an MG ECU specialist on Monday and explain the situation / my testing. With some hope they'll be able to provide at least some verbal confirmation that this could be an ECU fault, to which I'll send it to them for testing.

Taking another stab at this although it does sound like an ECU issue.
I found what might be the correct schematic for your Norge.
Based on your posts, you've checked the coil circuit for the start relay. have you checked the starter side of the circuit?
pin 3 of the start relay should have 12v coming from fuse B(15amps). and pin 5 should go directly to the starter solenoid

Fair question though unfortunately it's not yet a factor

Pin 3 is actually the wire you alter during the fix for "startus interruptus" so that's currently its own fused wire taken direct to the positive terminal. However, did check for clarity and read strong 12V.

I think I understand in concept what's happening, which is why it's led me to the ECU. Key on triggers the main ignition relay which powers one half of the starter relay coil. The other half of the coil goes into the ECU, which waits for the starter button signal on pin 27. When pressed, the starter relay should be engaged by the ECU and the bike attempt to start. However, the relay doesn't engage (no audible or felt "click" despite verification of the relay's function and the use of another relay). ECU is reading the voltage off pin 1, and somewhere between pin 1 and ground the ECU is losing too many volts and refusing to complete the relay circuit. Other norge owners traced their issue to said ground however, I feel confident I have ruled that out.

Speaking my dad a little more, we both recalled that this happened last year too during winter. However on that occasion I fixed it with the startus interruptus wire. My hypothesis is that either the temperature, moisture, or both of UK winters has compromised the ECU in some manner.

We'll see how my call on Monday goes.

RESOLVED

But in I must admit, a very unsatisfying manner.
Sent the ECU off to be looked at, to a company that stated on their website they do the specific model on the norge.

Test comes back inconclusive - Turns out they just assumed they could test it because it's the same model used in some Fiats...

Gets sent back but can see it was opened and looked at/resealed. At this point I'm thinking if it's not the ECU it must be a wiring short on pin2 of the relay (after pulling the ECU code into guzzidiag I was getting p0170 which suggests a short in that circuit)

Reinstall the ECU and give it a hail mary before diving in with wirecutters. Starts first time with no issue. Repeat a few more times for confirmation.


Clearly something wasn't right in the ECU, and it being opened up jostled whatever it was back into position. Hopefully it holds up but I'll know where to look if this crops up again!

Love a happy ending but unsatisfying as you say. *Something loose apparently or not seated well.

I know of nobody who has ever managed to disassemble a W5AM ECU. Those that have tried have invariably found separating the bonding agent destroys the unit. 

Glad it's fixed.

I think all they did was take the top cover off held by the two pins, judging by where I can see the re-seal job.

Getting it back together this weekend after another test to get her running again

Fingers crossed that it's a long term fix!

Pete Roper wrote:

I know of nobody who has ever managed to disassemble a W5AM ECU. Those that have tried have invariably found separating the bonding agent destroys the unit. 

Yes.....



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Yeah that's a bit too much



Going off this video, and where I can see it was touched I'd say they got to about 2:27 in the disassembly process and took it no further.

Bit of an update to this
It appears that I haven't actually resolved this issue. Once it started to warm up again back in late Feb, it appears the bike would start again. However I started noticing that if the bike was taken on a ride and then turned off, attempting to turn the bike on again immediately after would produce the exact same issue.

I found a service manual for a 750 Nevada that provided a troubleshooting guide on this, and the final step was to simply replace the wiring harness. Not wanting to do that, I acquired some wire in the exact same colour as the one going to the ECU (Pink/Brown), cut the old wire, soldered and sealed the new one on and routed it to the relay where I attached it there as well.

The good news is that I didn't bugger it and the bike still starts as it did before. The bad news is that it didn't bloody fix it!

I think I'll need to take the ECU out again. At this point the only thing I can think of is that the conduction between the actual ECU and the metal bracket that bolts onto the frame is interrupted somehow. That could create a scenario where the metal bracket gives a good ground response (as it did for me) but the ECU itself does not.

Failing that, I don't know. ECU itself has an issue? they never actually tested it so it's a possibility.

Try running a ground wire from the ECU to the battery negative terminal.

I have the schematic of my 2V 07 Norge I can send if you need. Won't let me post the image here.

beetle wrote:

Try running a ground wire from the ECU to the battery negative terminal.

Indeed. Instead of using the same bolt that the current ground strap uses, I have instead sandwiched a ring terminal between the ECU body and the bracket that the ground strap and frame bolts attached to.

My thinking on this is as follows: I had actually already added an extra line from that original ground point to the negative terminal but this did not make any improvement. If the issue is in fact the grounding between the ECU and its bracket, this new line would help to bypass the issue. All i know for sure is that I'm an absolute ace at removing the ECU from this thing now

Bugger!
Didn't change a thing.

New ECU?

eBay LINKY

Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

Listing is Ducati - assume I'd dump my own ECU via guzzidiag/etc and load onto this one?

Yup. As long as the ecu has the same HW# it will work.

I wouldn't have posted the link if it wasn't compatible.

Save the current map and EEPROM and install them in the replacement ECU.

Gotcha
bought it. Local collection but Stockport isn't too far from me. I'll make sure to download whatever map is on it first too - just in case it doesn't work

Alrighty, got the ECU.

Sound guy selling it - had what I think was a v7 block and heads to show me as well.

EEPROM/Map out of the norge first, install the Ducati ECU, pull the EEPROM/Map out of the Ducati ECU as a backup, and then load the norge stuff onto it.

With luck I'll have it done by tomorrow.

ECU swapped out and remapped.
Easily the most terrifying/boring 40 minutes of my life.

as I said I would, I've saved the map and EEPROM from the duc ECU juuust in case this doesn't fix it.

red light on the dash went out once the norge's map had been uploaded to the duc ECU. EEPROM loaded fine and she started without issue. Unfortunately it's torrential rain here for the rest of the week so I'll need one good morning/afternoon to get a solid ride out of her. If she starts immediately after a ride then I'm confident this is fixed.

OK, some progress here and a step back (but I think I know why)

Took the bike for a run to warm it up and test that the ECU swap hasn't caused anything weird to happen. Good news is that the original non-start issue when hot appears to be solved! (dead of winter start test pending)

bad news is that she now has a very odd throttle response. Beetle, I know that when people load up your maps one of the final steps is to reset the TPS and autolearning. I didn't do that here given I'd just copied my whole EEPROM onto the new ECU.

However, it has a very weird behaviour when cracking open the throttle. once you take up the slack, if you actually crack the throttle just a smidge and leave it there you'll kill the bike. Made slow speed navigation a bit of a task but I powered through it having an accidental engine kill only once.

I feel pretty confident that this is the TPS/autolearn needing a reset, because the stepper is now turning off before the throttle is sufficiently opened? I'll plug in guzzidiag and grab my throttle sensor reading later.

Suspicions confirmed.
Plugged in GuzziDiag and lo and behold, the TPS was showing 0.30 degrees when closed!

Reset it, now reads 4.6 and the stumble on throttle open is gone. If the weather is good tomorrow I'll get one more ride out of her before I say this is all truly fixed.