Subject: The Buellbloke Saga Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:17 am
Anybody follow ..who knows Re routed stepper motor hose to right side of airbox, always wondered why the head breather return hose refused to stay put and now I know why. Those cutouts on the throttle body mounting bracket were put there for that reason I imagine. Swapped out my expensive 5 year and 5k long life laser platinum spark plugs, nothing wrong with those bad boys... damn Fitted a new original air filter. Considering checking the air temp sensor incase the probe got contaminated Re checked tappets ....hmm got a second opinion, all my inlet gaps were a lttle too generous. Bike was excessively tappety. Fitted some Amsoil and quietened the top end significantly but getting the inlet gaps correct has made mega difference. No riding until a re balance and TPS reset, here's hoping
I follow a bit, but it would be great to add the problem that led you to investigate and find the tappet mis-adjustment (and thanks for sharing that).
I wouldn't class my procedure as because of a problem more trying to achieve perfection. Balancing the throttles perfectly is an art, having correctly adjusted tappets is all part of that art. My top end was a tad noiser than it should have been. With my Amsoil and correctly adjusted tappets my top end sounds sublime, am considering a video its that quiet Bike does have some low speed surging similar to what it had when aquired it since applied this latest map. It mainly presents itself stuck in city traffic ridng at a snails pace. I would prefer it gone altogether, so am running through the balancing process again, this time perfecting every step. Even to cleaning the air intake sensor as on some bikes this can cause havoc all by its self. An oil coated sensor on a harley creates a high idling misdomeanor though my idle is practically perfect once warmed. Every facet of my GRiSO is working beautifully except this low speed surging ...and I want it gone
Last edited by Buellbloke on Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Anybody follow ..who knows Re routed stepper motor hose to right side of airbox, always wondered why the head breather return hose refused to stay put and now I know why. Those cutouts on the throttle body mounting bracket were put there for that reason I imagine.[/url]
This doesn't sound right...the hose that comes from the stepper motor and wraps around the metal frame holding said stepper motor should attach to the left upper nipple on the airbox, not to the right side.
The right side front nipple on the airbox connects to a hose coming from the front of the bike that runs along the upper right frame.
I can't imagine this would be different even for those of you who drive on the other side of the road!
Anybody follow ..who knows Re routed stepper motor hose to right side of airbox, always wondered why the head breather return hose refused to stay put and now I know why. Those cutouts on the throttle body mounting bracket were put there for that reason I imagine.[/url]
This doesn't sound right...the hose that comes from the stepper motor and wraps around the metal frame holding said stepper motor should attach to the left upper nipple on the airbox, not to the right side.
The right side front nipple on the airbox connects to a hose coming from the front of the bike that runs along the upper right frame.
I can't imagine this would be different even for those of you who drive on the other side of the road!
When I got my bike and first removed the tank the stepper was routed left and the hose was off on the right. I replaced the hose on the right and it subsequently popped off again, there is no actual nipple on mine just a straight plastic outlet. I added in a joiner to create more length and routed the hose so it was forced to remain on the outlet.
LCjohnny mentioned it routed the other way and provided a picture... have at it and enjoy I will say this, it makes not the blindest difference which of those two sides its mounted on except that the stepper hose does route rather nicely to that side. In order to mount the return oil gas hose I had to further extend it as it seems to get in the way of mounting the fuel tank. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Last edited by Buellbloke on Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
Sounds like you are missing a nipple on your airbox, but there are indeed two of them, one upper right that attaches to the hose coming down the right hand frame, and the one on the upper left which attaches to the stepper motor.
Unless the prior owner somehow managed to install the stepper motor in reverse, I don't see how the config you describe is possible.
The diagram above shows the tube attaching to the upper left of the airbox.
What I call left is when you are sitting on the bike facing forward, let's make sure we've got our left and right straight here!
If you run the bike without the stepper motor, and put your finger on the left hose, you will feel a vacuum sucking, on the right hand hose there is no vacuum.
Sounds like you are missing a nipple on your airbox, but there are indeed two of them, one upper right that attaches to the hose coming down the right hand frame, and the one on the upper left which attaches to the stepper motor.
Unless the prior owner somehow managed to install the stepper motor in reverse, I don't see how the config you describe is possible.
The diagram above shows the tube attaching to the upper left of the airbox.
What I call left is when you are sitting on the bike facing forward, let's make sure we've got our left and right straight here!
If you run the bike without the stepper motor, and put your finger on the left hose, you will feel a vacuum sucking, on the right hand hose there is no vacuum.
Aint no nipple on either side both are straight outlets. Obviously the stepper hose sucks thats it function, the oil gas return blows or gets sucked fcuk knows. No way to mess the hoses up as the stepper hose is created with multiple bends. As said previously makes not one iota of difference which side of the airbox either hose is connected unless Mr Roper can inform us otherwise?
The stepper hose has its bends, but there's no way it can reach the right hand side upper airbox unless the stepper has been mounted backwards...which I suppose would take some work to do...the hose is just not long enough to reach.
Do you have a hose running down the right hand side frame that you have attached somewhere, or just left to vent without attaching to the airbox?
The stepper hose has its bends, but there's no way it can reach the right hand side upper airbox unless the stepper has been mounted backwards...which I suppose would take some work to do...the hose is just not long enough to reach.
Do you have a hose running down the right hand side frame that you have attached somewhere, or just left to vent without attaching to the airbox?
Is mine reversed, obviously this is the right side throttle body as has the TPS. The stepper fitting is to the rear arrowed. Hose mounts to stepper then goes over and under throttle body frame and mounts to the right side easy
Ok, I think we're talking about different tubes. The one I'm referring to is the large thick tube that attaches to the center of the stepper motor and is the one that should route to the left hand side upper nipple/outlet of the airbox.
It doesn't matter which side of the airbox it's connected to, but I would use the route that is least convoluted. Minimise any bends.
Typically, the stepper is connected to the left side, and the blow-by to the right.
Thanx Mark
Exactly as it was before I got involved in this brand new mess, where's LCJohnny it was his explanation and that diagramme moved them around I think the diagramme is just showing how the hose attaches not that it must be attached to that side in the picture.
I will add my Stepper hose is preformed isnt everyone's? with several bends that allows it to route cleanly and easily to either side. No kinks or tight bends, wouldnt fit it if there was.
In order to fit the breather return hose had to extend it and route it under the stepper motor, there is the option for gasses to pool at the bottom and potentially later be mass ejected or not
PJPR01 GRiSO Capo
Posts : 213 Join date : 2018-04-24
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:34 am
Re-reading what you have written…The fact that you had to add extensions to both is proof that they are routed to the wrong nipple… but so be it. You could also add a small Clamp on the hose to guarantee they don’t slip off as it seems they have a tendency to do so, especially the oily one.
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Fri Sep 16, 2022 9:13 am
PJPR01 wrote:
Re-reading what you have written…The fact that you had to add extensions to both is proof that they are routed to the wrong nipple… but so be it. You could also add a small Clamp on the hose to guarantee they don’t slip off as it seems they have a tendency to do so, especially the oily one.
You didnt do a very good job then as only added an extention to the return gas vent hose
Stepper routes to either side with ease, it would wouldn't it as the distance from its centre mount is the same on either side. There are also cutouts in the throttle body support frame on either side to assist with routing. With no nipple to secure the hose from sliding off, clamps will have little to no effect except maybe crushing the tube they are clamped around. The stepper routes and sits securely on the outlet with no need for a clamp. Am more than capable of forcing the return hose by other means to stay in position. It only popped off the first couple times as never set my mind to securing it. I will probably just leave it where it is unless need to remove the tank for some reason then will revert it back to the right side and the stepper to the left
Stepper routes to either side with ease, it would wouldn't it as the distance from its centre mount is the same on either side. There are also cutouts in the throttle body support frame on either side to assist with routing.
Good luck...on my side, with the stepper hose properly routed around the metal frame with its preformed shape, it naturally comes over to the left hand, doesn't reach to the right hand side. I suppose you could make it reach to the right hand if it's not sitting wrapped around the metal frame.
Hope the bike runs better now that you've fine tuned it.
I'm off to disassemble my stepper motor while waiting for the replacement one to show up.
Buellbloke likes this post
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:04 am
PJPR01 wrote:
Hope the bike runs better now that you've fine tuned it.
I'm off to disassemble my stepper motor while waiting for the replacement one to show up.
Thats a nope runs exactly the same with low speed surge, doing the tappets did little more than reduce the top end noise, they obviously weren't that far out to begin with. Swapped the stepper and breather return hoses back to their original positions. My airbox forward centre drain hose fractured when re assembled after throttle body clean a few weeks ago, so lifted the airbox and fitted a new one. Its not like have been out on the bike, more a couple local city runs and thats about it.
Stepper routes to either side with ease, it would wouldn't it as the distance from its centre mount is the same on either side. There are also cutouts in the throttle body support frame on either side to assist with routing.
Good luck...on my side, with the stepper hose properly routed around the metal frame with its preformed shape, it naturally comes over to the left hand, doesn't reach to the right hand side. I suppose you could make it reach to the right hand if it's not sitting wrapped around the metal frame.
Hope the bike runs better now that you've fine tuned it.
I'm off to disassemble my stepper motor while waiting for the replacement one to show up.
You should see the latest. Map was perfect, my implimentation skills weren't too bad either. Turns out a seconday injection relay provides power to both injectors. Possibly though not enough juice to the LH injector, evidently it feeds the RH Injector first. So imagine your bike riding with one injector firing then not firing then firing firing firing then not firing and therein lies the symptoms. No amount of mapping, Co trims, throttle balancing or hitting the TPS reset function is going to cure the above scenario or make it even the remotest bit better Its not a low speed surge just more go faster juice hides the eratic firing injector better.
That's quite an esoteric problem, seems like the most challenging ones are electrical in nature.
Have you been able to identify the specific relay that causes this intermittent injector firing problem or is it possible it's just a dirty connection.
This does give me an idea for my stepper motor problem...I think I'll remove and clean all of the relays I can find tonight.
Buellbloke Nibbio
Posts : 713 Join date : 2021-07-30 Age : 61
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:45 am
PJPR01 wrote:
That's quite an esoteric problem, seems like the most challenging ones are electrical in nature.
Have you been able to identify the specific relay that causes this intermittent injector firing problem or is it possible it's just a dirty connection.
This does give me an idea for my stepper motor problem...I think I'll remove and clean all of the relays I can find tonight.
The primary injection relay is in the tail section and provides juice to the secondary injection relay which on my bike is the last one on the right hand bank of relays. Neither relay was at fault both work perfectly. Both injectors are receiving the correct amount of power. My bike either has a wiring short between the left injector and the ECU or the ECU is f*ck knows We're getting there slowly but surely. That said replacement of the relays has had a marked effect, almost like the signal is cleaner/stronger. Bike does have the occassional no start which is strange, though it did that before changed the relays.
PJPR01 GRiSO Capo
Posts : 213 Join date : 2018-04-24
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:29 pm
Sounds like you are having some moderate progress on the bike BB...good to hear.
I cleaned all of my relays...didn't do anything to improve the situation for me.
I think I have a fault somewhere in the wiring as well, I'm going to try one more Hail Mary based on all of the esoteric threads on this stepper motor error and that is to replace the speed sensor. Pete had mentioned there was a thread a while back and I found it in the archives on the web...so I'm going to give it a shot and see if this speed sensor (not speedometer, just speed) on the inside of the rear CARC is the culprit. If it isn't, then I think it's either a bad ECU or just a pinched, broken wire somewhere in the loom, but if the bike runs fine mechanically and has no other issues, so I'll just overlook the red triangle and annoying SERVICE on the dash, as there's absolutely nothing else that comes up in performance or errors...so it must just be a voltage issue somewhere. Maybe one day when I'm riding, the triangle will just disappear!
I have no idea which of the pins on the ECU map to the 4 wires on the Stepper, and quite honestly, don't really want to decouple those wires and replace them individually unless I could see which pins they go to.
Trying to get Guzzi to warranty the ECU sounded quite extensive on the other thread...
beetle GRiSO Capo
Posts : 10200 Join date : 2013-09-30
Subject: Re: The Buellbloke Saga Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:57 pm
Quote :
I have no idea which of the pins on the ECU map to the 4 wires on the Stepper, and quite honestly, don't really want to decouple those wires and replace them individually unless I could see which pins they go to.
Subject: The Buellbloke Saga 
Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:17 am
