Question on fuel cap

Bill Hagan wrote:

3.  Coatings?  I haven’t but I might now that I have the Norge’s tank off.  That said, I have seen numerous mentions elsewhere that such coatings, e.g., Caswell, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] do not “take” well as a result of the nature of the Norge’s “plastic” tank.  As I understand it — not to be confused with I do — one needs to abrade the entire interior finish for the coatings to adhere, and that is nigh on to impossible.  True?  Dunno.  Again, ethanol has not been the problem (especially the swelling) with the GRiSO’s tank that it has with the Norge.  I have to say that I also have not kept its tank off for weeks at a time as I have the Norge, so remounting has not been the curse-filled challenge of the other either.

Dragons Blood by Caswell gets some good mentions. From what I've read its not so much the abrasion aspect of the preparation that is the issue, but removing all traces of fuel from the tank and letting it dry out properly.

motor-timothy wrote:

Dragons Blood by Caswell gets some good mentions. From what I've read its not so much the abrasion aspect of the preparation that is the issue, but removing all traces of fuel from the tank and letting it dry out properly.  

Thanks.

My Norge's tank has been off for six weeks, but I think I'll let it sit a bit longer then give that a try.

Bill

P.S. The Polish grocery was a hoot. And, my mission was successful, as a flock of butter lambs is in the fridge.

Had to look that one up, Bill, never heard of it before. Amazing what one can learn on the GRiSO Ghetto!

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You don't have butter lambs in the US? Somehow they are much tastier than non-lamb shaped butter. In fact they only last a day or so in my fridge before I devour them whole.

I did a quick Google search on my phone this morning about ethanol issues and storage.  If I understood the articles correctly, the advice was to store the gas tank filled with a stabilizer of some sort.  Their premise was "the less air in the tank, the less ability to draw in moisture."  I'll read them again tonight when I read the articles on the computer and ensure I understood them correctly.  If they seem to be of any value, I'll post the link here.

Very interesting that this issue exists.  The gas tank on my Beta (Italian dirt bike) and Acerbis tank (Italian accessory gas tank) on my KTM have not swelled.  Both of those are some sort of plastic or nylon.

motor-timothy wrote:

You don't have butter lambs in the US?

We probably do, just because I've never heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

We also have "butter face" here, but that's a whole 'nother topic!

I thought this article was worth reading.  None of the additives will prevent phase separation due to ethanol but the ones tested in the article all improved the oxidation resistance.  Startron, Yamalube and Marine Stabil were the three product names I recognized.  

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What I did find interesting is that in all the articles I read, the recommendation was to store the tank  full of fuel rather than close to empty.  Keeping the air out of the tank supposedly reduces the amount of water absorbed.

This^^^
Less air = less water. Single most important thing you can do. Works for me for some time now. Just make it a habit at the end of your ride.

I had the tank swelling issue and have reported on it before here at the Ghetto. I lined a replacement tank with Caswell expoxy and 18 months later all is well. I am a weekend rider only and that probably had something to do with it. The swelling was at the top of the tank first starting on the left side and then right. It was noticeable because the tank stripes were pulling away from the tank. Probably if you keep your tank full when it's sitting, you might be able to avoid the problem. The old tank took about 6 months to completely go back to it's original shape. I use non ethanol gas now that I moved to Georgia and you can get "marine fuel" here. With my tank lined now, it wouldn't be a problem to use the corn gas if I have to. Lining the tank with Caswell can be a little tricky but there are video's on youtube that I watched and were helpful. I would be glad to elaborate more or speak to anyone wanting to talk to someone who took the plunge.

I have these "dimples" on my tank. Could this be swelling from ethanol? I thought it was just a poor molding of the plastic, or poor finishing before paint at the factory. There are two "dimple" blemishes on each side, directly above the frame, and in line with the cylinder head covers. Does anyone have photos of the swelling? My tank stripes are still good.

Happy Easter everyone!

Norm.

^^^^^^^

Can't speak to others' experiences (or to their superior knowledge as to cause), but will say my GRiSO had similar dimpling in similar spots.  

Those vanished when I became more attentive to using Startron and Sta-bil, and have not recurred.

As with all anecdata, YMMV.

Bill

Thanks for the info Bill, I'll try filling up at stations that offer pure gas. Here's a website I found, that people might be interested in. pure-gas.org

My tank did not dimple but expanded. It was hard to get off the bike when I exchanged tanks (with one I bought from a wrecked bike). The nylon tank absorbs the water from the ethanol and appears to manifest itself in different ways. It's a big problem with Ducati's too.

Bill,
Did you use the Startron and Sta-Bil interchangeably or was one for riding season maintenance and the other for winter storage?  I've never used Startron but have used a lot of Stabil and Seafoam over the years.  Seems like an easy and relatively inexpensive fix.

Another question for the group. If the tank swells and then I fill it with ethanol free gas or treated fuel while it sits for a while, will the selling go away?

Thanks,
Alden

Alden
All of my reading and research which was plentiful when I had the problem told me that you had to let it dry out. However, it seems like Bill has had a different experience and he has more experience with the GRiSO and Norge etc than I do for sure. In 2014 when I bought the GRiSO, it was my first bike since about 1983.

I am on the road heading back home from Atlanta.  I always stop in Gafney, S.C. for fuel and fast food as that allows me think about Andie MacDowell. I have found it unhelpful to mention this to Kathi.

Anyway, no time to reread all of this to ensure I said whatever I said correctly.

But, the short version is that I had "dimpling" on both Norge and GRiSO, but swelling has been a serious problem only on the Norge.

Using both Stabil and Startron (interchangeably) -- but the former more for winter layup and the latter for riding season -- led (I think!) to dimples and pimples disappearing, but no discernible effect on swollen tank.

Sure wish there were a metal option.

Gotta go.

BIll

P.S.  I left the butter lambs in the fridge where I was staying in Atlanta.  No, really.  Incredible.   I am now headed to an "ethnic grocery" in Charlotte where I hope they have those.  

Baa!