problems after a 10k service

Hi from NZ! My dream machine is a 2012 8V GRiSO model bought new in 2014. Really happy, but she doesn’t get ridden enough. Probably the commonest problem… She had two services from the company I bought her from (Nick and Vicki motorcycles in Morrinsville- very happy with their service) but I then moved to the South Island. Being due for the 10,000 km service I booked it in at the only South Island MG agent, in Christchurch. Incidentally, they quoted me around $1k. After a great trip around the island I stopped in to have the work done. They finished around lunch time and I headed off home to Nelson (about 5 hours ride away). The mechanic said the tappets needed quite a lot of tightening. The bike went really well on the ride home and was noticeably quieter and had good fuel economy. Anyway, the next time I went for a ride, after a few minutes she started missing and farting and had poor power. Only just ridable. There was also a faint fuel smell on parking up.
The only non-cosmetic modification is a GPR exhaust with a home-made db killer (works really well with the previously upgraded standard map). They did not upgrade the map during the service (well, I asked them not to).
I suspect that they did something that was fine while the bike remained hot, but has caused problems now running cold. However, the first ride after returning from the service was long enough for it to have warmed up, but the problem persisted. The problem hasn’t resolved itself, and there’s nothing obviously wrong (rag in air box sort of things).
The only other issues I’ve had are the starter motor fuse blowing (fine now up a rating) and a strange loud mechanical “rattle” type noise from the motor that has happened twice, both times when under very hard braking going fast down very steep hills. The rattle went away shortly afterwards and didn’t seem to affect anything afterwards. I explained this to myself as being oil thrown forward starving the pick-up but thinking about it now, this may not make sense.
Help please! I’ve got basic tools and capability, and not interested at all in returning to the Christchurch agents. There’s a good Ducati guy in town. But will I be OK if I use him, and subsequently need rollerisation?
Cheers
Mike

They've fucked the plug caps taking them off and if your bike is a flat tappet model it will need rollerisation.

Why it 'Rattles' under braking I have NFI, probably because if they've fucked the plug caps they've fucked a lot of other stuff too.

Pete

I think the rattle is 'normal' if you rev to 7000rpm in a low gear and slam throttle shut (I can recreate same noise) so the mechanical bits get a good shaking.

Unless they put no oil in it; it ISN'T oil starvation at the pick up !

I can't make either of my horrible old shitheaps rattle in any way if I slam the throttle shut from any rpm? Loose camchain might cause it which might point to the pesky spacer gasket other than that I got nuttin'........?

Pete

Shit thanks guys- feeling more confident this isn't a major... to let you know the rattle noise was before the service and at middleish revs, only happened twice...

So to fix the plug caps what do I do? And what are the symptoms when I need rollerisation? and am I rooted if I have a service from the Ducati guy in town?

By the way, if anyone is wanting to tour the South Island of NZ let me know- there's a spare room and beer here in Nelson. It is absolutely amazing riding- great scenery and excellent riding roads (and no roos). There's a lot of great rides that don't feature on the internet.

$1K for a service? WTF? Did virgins lick the bike clean while they poured in engine oil from golden amphora anointed by Luigi?

Sounds like my local dealer, who also charged me a similar amount for a small 10k service, and also managed to screw up my plug caps (twice). Perhaps they are family. If its the plugcaps (which makes sense) make sure you don't ride it until fixed because at some point one of the cylinders may stop working entirely (as in my case) causing unburned fuel to flow into the exhaust system potentially burning it (mine turned brownish) and damaging the catalytic converter.

MikerNZ wrote:

Shit thanks guys- feeling more confident this isn't a major... to let you know the rattle noise was before the service and at middleish revs, only happened twice...

So to fix the plug caps what do I do?  And what are the symptoms when I need rollerisation? and am I rooted if I have a service from the Ducati guy in town?

By the way, if anyone is wanting to tour the South Island of NZ let me know- there's a spare room and beer here in Nelson.  It is absolutely amazing riding- great scenery and excellent riding roads (and no roos).  There's a lot of great rides that don't feature on the internet.

Whatever you do, don't just replace the current plugcaps with the same crappy horribly expensive OEM plugcaps but new. Instead you order a specific type of NGK plugcaps, the SD05E (perfect match), or if these aren't available in your region the SB05E (not a perfect fit but apparently they work). In a nutshell you cut off the old OEM plugcaps (make sure you have enough cable left to reach the sparkplugs as the NGK caps don't have a bend so use slightly more cable) then you screw the NGK caps onto the exposed end of the cable. That's it.

Here is a nice writeup on what to order/do (guide starts halfway down the topic written by leafman60):  http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=61267.0

As for the rattle sound thingy, it would not surprise me if that was the sump gasket going to shit, thus reducing the oil pressure enough from going to the top of the engine. My 2013 had that and I'd never guessed it to be the issue if it wasn't for this Forum. Dealers sure ain't gonna figure this one out since they're a bunch of rabies ridden Apes anyway.
Does your oil light flickers?

Oh, and check your oil level. Make sure they added enough. lol
Rattles under hard breaking will do that with a low level...

The difference between the SB05E and F caps is the centre electrode terminal. If your plugs have a detachable tip that screws on to the electrode of the plug you need to remove it and use 'E's, if it's non removable use 'F's. Getting the caps off without damage is done by prying them up from underneath using a long, thin screwdriver slipped in through the cooling tunnel just above the exhaust manifold in the head.

Let's hope they knew how to tune a W5AM Guzzi and haven't fucked about with the throttle bodies. If you want to see if they have the remotest idea what they were doing get a 5mm Allen key and check the air bleeds. At most only one should be open. If they're both open its obvious they haven't a clue.

Whip a rocker cover off and take a pic of the tappets and post it up so we can tell you if it's a flat or roller tappet model. If it's a flat tappet model rollerising as early as possible is the best bet. The factory won't do anything until the top end starts making a noise. By then it's far too late. If it is a flat tappet bike it'll need an 'A' kit. Cost is a bit over a grand $AU. Cost to install plus oil etc if it isn't caught early enough about $600AU. If you can't find anyone you'd trust locally to do the job fly me over on a cheap ticket and I'll do it for you. I did this for a bloke in Tassie with a Stelvio.

Pete

That sounds like the kind of shit Ducati pulls. They told me a grand for a service on a s4r that I used to have. That's when I taught myself how to speak duck.

Thanks guys

Have taken the plug caps off and tested their resistance (don't know if it's a sign of a fault though) which for both is around 5k ohms.  The plugs are both equally blackened, but not too bad.  Can't find the NGK plug caps here in NZ- are they available out of Oz?  Looks pretty clean under both the rocker covers- will add a photo.

If it's a flat tappet model then I might just take you up on your generous offer Pete...  

With the mystery rattle, I didn't notice the oil light coming on (pretty sure it didn't), plenty of oil in the sump, and perhaps it was at higher than mid revs.  The second time it continued for a while, I think even on shut down and restart, until I gave it a rest for 5 mins or so. Then back to normal.

I think the $1k was mostly for MG virgins to do the service!

cheers
Mike[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Need to have a pic looking down directly over the tops of the tappets but here are a couple of pics so you can compare. To me it looks like a flattie judging from the rocker design.

Flats

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Rollers

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If the bloke who worked on it said that the valve gaps had opened up a fair bit why didn't he investigate further. Removing the LH cambox takes 15 minutes and would of revealed something like this..

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Pete

PS. PM me your address and I'll send you some caps.

Thanks Pete

Couple more pics below. yes looks more like your flats pic. Help much appreciated, will PM.

cheers
Mike

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Nope, they aren't the tappets. They're the adjusters. Other end of the rockers above the cam. That's the thing with a sprocket and chain on it towards the centreline of the bike.

Pete

Bugger, I got a pic by PM. It's a flatty

Looks like the old style grounding tang. On the opposite side of where it normally is? I predict flatties.


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Flattie.

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OK... so what's happened since then is that both Michael and Pete have visited (Pete on a one-off trip to bring over the unexpectedly required early model kit) and the work has been done. I just want to say how professionally and expertly they dissected and put back together the bits required to get me back on the road. I could not have asked anything more, and from great couple of guys.

On Saturday I tested it all with a blat to Golden Bay over Takaka Hill (actually a mountain), all sweet, smooth, and fantastic; the new map also an amazing improvement. Go the GRiSO!

I can't thank these guys enough for helping me out, getting my bike sorted, and also giving me pointers on how to undertake future maintenance and improvement options.

So thanks guys, I hope we stay in touch, and anyone that is planning a visit to SI NZ feel free to drop me a line.

cheers
Mike

Good to hear you’re back on the road Mike. I know a bit about so called mechanics who manage to cause plenty of damage. Pete is working to rectify such an issue on my bike.

Yeah, your engine is out and the top end's off. Michael's been up to his armpits in it today. As soon as we have more info we'll let you know. Tappets on the other side were as bad as the LH ones but it doesn't look like that side was ever taken to bits. Haven't got the valves out of that side yet. Not expecting miracles.......

beetle wrote:

$1K for a service? WTF? Did virgins lick the bike clean while they poured in engine oil from golden amphora anointed by Luigi?

Inexplic(k?)ably missed this first time through this thread.  Read it to Kathi who (as a result of a cloistered education) often gets wide-eyed at this forum's colorful language and "interesting" metaphors and analogies.  She laughed and laughed.    

MikerNZ wrote:

OK... so what's happened since then is that both Michael and Pete have visited (Pete on a one-off trip to bring over the unexpectedly required early model kit) and the work has been done.  I just want to say how professionally and expertly they dissected and put back together the bits required to get me back on the road. I could not have asked anything more, and from great couple of guys.

On Saturday I tested it all with a blat to Golden Bay over Takaka Hill (actually a mountain), all sweet, smooth, and fantastic; the new map also an amazing improvement.  Go the GRiSO!

I can't thank these guys enough for helping me out, getting my bike sorted, and also giving me pointers on how to undertake future maintenance and improvement options.

So thanks guys, I hope we stay in touch, and anyone that is planning a visit to SI NZ feel free to drop me a line.

cheers
Mike    

Good to hear.

It's also gratifying to read that there are folks out there who, as do I, love our Grisos, yet find their internals as mysterious as ... searching for the sort of colorful simile that Pete or Beetle might use here.  FAIL.  

Nice rescue work there, Pete and Michael.

Bill