GRiSO Startus Interuptus

CrazyBiker wrote:

TLDR. Does this mod apply to 1200s? I have no starting issues. Also actual detailed pics would be appreciated

I always see "TLDR" as a confession about the poster's attention span.

Your second, I understand, but will let others who know answer.

Your last has, I believe, been addressed here before; I thus take it that your search has been unsuccessful?  

If none now, no doubt staff here will jump immediately to respond to your request.

Bill

P.S.  Edited to say that if I come across as uncharacteristically crabby, I am thawing by the fire after two hours outside (while it snows!) spraying plants, buds, and flowers with a hose to get them through the subfreezing temps tonight and tomorrow.  I need grappa.   )

Buellbloke wrote:

CrazyBiker wrote:

TLDR. Does this mod apply to 1200s? I have no starting issues. Also actual detailed pics would be appreciated . . .

. . . If your bike has no issues then don't try to fix what ain't broken . . .

As an Aircraft Engineer (Retired after 42yrs), I strongly disagree.

Why not pre-empt a quite likely failure, and do the cheap and simple mod now?
Sod's Law states any failure is likely to be at the most inopportune moment, and in the middle of nowhere, why risk it by waiting for that?

Hi Guys!

Clicks but do not crank and do not blow a fuse!

My Moto Guzzi Grisso 1200 8V 2010 (37000 km) does not crank.

Background:

Bought the bike in may 2020 (29000 km)
the bike had been rollerised earlier (15000 km)
did a full service by dealer
it was shooting fuse when trying to start
installed a ”electric starter kit” with extra relay from a guy in Italy on Ebay.it (see link below)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
better but stil shooting fuses
cleaned starter motor (felt a bit sluggish) and did not shoot as many fuses
however by time it started to shoot fuses more often

Charging battery:

the bike stands in a big garage that are reasonable dry and +20 degree Celsius
been standing for a month
11.5 V on display when I started the GRiSO (drops down about 2 V on display when starting)
connect a CTEK charge for 28 hours (fully charged)

What is happening now:

ignition on 12.3 V on display
initiate the starter button
a pretty big click noise (I think it's the solenoid and not just the starter relay – because holding the hand on the starter motor it feels like a click)
do not crank
display turns off but get on a few seconds later
again possible to push start button – with same result as before – multiple times
intresting is that it does not shoot any fuse


Do anyone have had the same problem and a solution?

In my world it's strange that it does not blow any fuse as before - OR!?

Searching in this forum gives following sorces of possible error:

battery (Yakusa 2 years old – but You never now)
faulty starter contact on the handlebar
bad ground
have to clean and grease every electric connetion
exchange ”starter fix kit” to the simple ”starter interruptus fix” explained in this forum
faulty relay
faulty solenoid
faulty starter motor
faulty contact kickstand
faulty contact freegear

I am a Swede living in Portugal so I would like to be able to rely on my GRiSO for nice tours in this beutiful country (that is possible most of the year compared to Sweden).

Love to hear Your initiated thoughts.

Replace the stock 15A fuse with a 20 and get a new 20AH battery.

The fact your dash keeps blanking out when starting means the voltage drop is sufficient for the dash to stop the starting process. A new, 20AH, battery should fix it.

If you are running a 16AH battery, especially if the bike is inactive for lengthy periods of time, a couple of years is about all you can expect out of one. It's one of the commonest problems encountered. Most 16AH batteries are dimensionally identical to the 20AH version but are cheaper so people fit them. There is a very good reason the factory specifies a 20AH.

Also it is very important to put AGM batteries into service correctly. Follow the instructions in the leaflet included with the battery to the letter. Failure to do so can lead to serious damage to your bike and greatly reduced battery life.

The battery on my Indian FTR1200S died suddenly yesterday.  No warning, or failing to crank, just completely dead.  Not a sausage left, wouldn't even display the Instrument Cluster screen.

The saving grace was it decided to do this outside a motorcycle shop I was visiting.  A new battery fitted, and I was on the road again.

Some feedback on my issue.

Fuse never blowed in this case.

The battery is a Yusa YTX20CH-BS 18.9 AH and 270A (CCA)

Came down next day in the garage and turned on the ignition, the dash did not light up direct but after a few seconds but not showing any voltage at all on the dash.

Took out the battery went to my mechanic and ask him to test the capacity in the battery and not just the voltage. I was amased he did not have one! But he thought that the battery was gone and I should buy a new one. Took the battery with me and went two hundred meters to his collegue/concurrent. He had one got 13.69 V and 339 CCA. The battery was as new (2 years old)! With the battery out of the bike I charged it a little bit more 13.7 V. Cleaned and greased the terminals on the battery and all connected contacts on the terminals. Put the battery back with all connections. Ignition on dash shows 12.7 V prior 12.3 V, THE BIKE STARTS WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM. So my problem was OXIDATION on terminals and contacts. I will also clean all connections on solenoid, grounds, starter relay.

A question to You guys.
When having a fully charged battery not connected to the bike and it is showing 13.7 V on the voltmeter. What is a normal reading on the dash - mine shows now 12.7 V.

Thanks for Your input guys.

Dash voltage can only be read when the ignition is switch on, and therefore there is now a drain on the battery, lowering the voltage from 13.7 to 12.7 volts in your case.

IMHO, this is excessive voltage drop and I suspect your battery is toast. I would replace it with a new one before it strands you somewhere inconvenient.

Thanks, I understand Your thoughts.

Do You think the battery capasitor tester can show wrong?

What would You say would be a decent voltage reading on the dash?

Bad ground connection could maybe be a source for voltage drop!?

The earth (ground) connections to the bike and at the battery need to be corrosion free, clean and tight - when you have done it, it is worth checking the resistance is very very low.
After that check the power line connections at the starter and the battery.

A battery company should have a 100a battery tester like this resistance battery tester
They are pretty basic and don't get confused 1.2Kw draw and voltage monitoring shows you what the battery is doing when you try to start.

rodski wrote:

Thanks, I understand Your thoughts.

Do You think the battery capasitor tester can show wrong?

What would You say would be a decent voltage reading on the dash?

Bad ground connection could maybe be a source for voltage drop!?

Mine says 12.3 it still fires up sweet, bikes charges it at about 14.1

Thanks guys!
Something happened when I cleaned and greased terminals and contacts on the battery as it whent from 12.3 V to 12.7 V on the dash. I will clean and grease everithing else and test the battery once more at third mechanic with a tester like mentioned. My bike shows about 13.1 V on the dash when riding!!!???

rodski wrote:

Thanks guys!
Something happened when I cleaned and greased terminals and contacts on the battery as it whent from  12.3 V to 12.7 V on the dash. I will clean and grease everithing else and test the battery once more at third mechanic with a tester like mentioned. My bike shows about 13.1 V on the dash when riding!!!???

Sounds like your bike has a good standing charge but shit charging. 12.6 or above.
Mine has shit standing charge meaning its failing 12.3 is too low (should be 12.6 or above) so sulphating, yet seems to charge decent but wont hold it.

Battery and dash voltage example on my 1200
(with a 3 month old 20ah Yuasa and no measurable resistance between battery -ive and frame or engine or on the battery +ive connections)

I get 13.3v across the battery before i turn the ignition on

when i turn the ignition on battery voltage falls slowly to 12.6v and the dash displays 12.4v
during the first stage of starting battery voltage drops to 10.6v and the dash displays 10.4v
as soon as it is ticking over battery voltage rises to 14.7v and the dash displays 14.4v,
This bit corrected
when running it is max 14.2v
Through the day usually runs between 13.9v and 14.1v

Bike starts well and the lights are bright

hope this helps others

All this time well since last October my bike has had occassional miss starts.
I assumed was onset of startus interuptus.
I honestly have not used the Mode battery function on the GRiSO until today.
I've looked at it but never monitored what happens except for a startup once recently.
My battery is at 12.1volts, it will fire and after several minutes if bike turned off will say 12.9.
It drops off fast back down to about 12.4 then it hovers before dropping to 12.3 same down to 12.1.
Very occassionally it registers as 11.98 saw it today and of course it comes with the click no start as under 12 volts.
Turn off turn on again and goes back to 12.0 and starts just! Drops to 8v to crank the bike.
It's a Motobatt MBTX16U, I looked online for the 20amp version, its no longer in production for the GRiSO. it says it replaces the 20amp version.
You can buy a Motobatt MBTX20U only its 170mm wide and the GRiSO needs one around 150mm.
The battery of choice is the Yuasa YTX20CH-BS, best I found was £118.

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Yes they are damned expensive

BB,
I have the same battery as you wit the motobatt 16. I bought a 20 recently trying to do the right thing and in my haste, thought I checked the size…..it’s now in my John Deere riding mower….My 2014 seems to function the same as yours, i.e. will stay at 13.7 when riding and usually at 12.2-12.4 when I turn on the ignition and will drop to maybe 9 when it starts up. I’ve had this and another one just like it for 7 years. Never realized a ah20 was standard till reading some of our threads recently.
When I first experienced Startus, thank goodness it was in my garage because it wouldn’t start no matter how many times I tried. The bike was a year old then. I bought the bike from the shop that sells the Startus fix so I went over there and learned about Startus……..once I put a 20 amp fuse in the kit instead of the 15 it came with, I’ve been go to go.

JohnA wrote:

BB,
I have the same battery as you with the motobatt 16. I bought a 20 recently trying to do the right thing and in my haste, thought I checked the size…..it’s now in my John Deere riding mower….My 2014 seems to function the same as yours, i.e. will stay at 13.7 when riding and usually at 12.2-12.4 when I turn on the ignition and will drop to maybe 9 when it starts up. I’ve had this and another one just like it for 7 years. Never realized a ah20 was standard till reading some of our threads recently.
When I first experienced Startus, thank goodness it was in my garage because it wouldn’t start no matter how many times I tried. The bike was a year old then. I bought the bike from the shop that sells the Startus fix so I went over there and learned about Startus……..once I put a 20 amp fuse in the kit instead of the 15 it came with, I’ve been go to go.

Your charge on running is a bit low 13.7 I get 14.1/ 2 left to stand over night drops off to 12.00 -12.1 and drops to 8 on crank.
The fact its been dropping to below 12 volts after a ride and a short stand and since I got the bike.
Also after a refresher charge, plus another refresher prior to & after the epic winter service I performed (3 month break) .
Mine blatantly says this battery can't hold a charge.

12.2 -12.4 on stand is ok on yours and dropping to 9 on crank is normal.

A year old SE Edition  
I have actually seen a 2014 Black Devil for sale with 3K miles had 3 owners and 3 services.
What a bunch of nobs is all that springs to mind. I would have bought it as went for £6k.
I even tried to educate the last owner. I knew the GRiSO Ghetto would sort it.

The shop that sells the Startus Fix? You mean the "MPH Kit". Thats not a Startus Fix thats a patch, which helps juice the relay feed to the solenoid.
You should try the Relay fix below then remove your MPH kit and see that it will still start.

This is the simplified Startus actual fix, there is another more invasive version detailed by Kiwi_Roy which should both be pegged into the "Member Tech Archive" to save them getting lost.
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The one above is a saviour, any useless with electrics owner can impliment it as step by step with pictures, no interferring with the original loom.
Basically your MPH kits tries to boost the current from the starter relay to the starter solenoid.
This takes any amount of weedy current to the solenoid and boosts it to 40amps, sorted

It cant fix a f*cked battery though, low cranking amps are associated with a low power battery, hence me needing a new one.

A question I would like to ask
I own an Optimate IIISP and it does not specify AGM as supported.
I did see somewhere that all Optimate 3 chargers can handle any Motorcycle battery.
Bought the wrong one BS suffix on end of YTX20CH-BS means "Bottle Supplied".
Am hoping its filled at the factory although two versions are available, I believe the minor discount I have is because of that very fact.

An update to this thread concerning "EPP Regulations" means my Bottle Supplied battery must be filled by the vendor prior to shipping unless I possess a license.

rodski wrote:

Hi Guys!

Clicks but do not crank and do not blow a fuse!

My Moto Guzzi Grisso 1200 8V 2010 (37000 km) does not crank.

Background:

Bought the bike in may 2020 (29000 km)
the bike had been rollerised earlier (15000 km)
did a full service by dealer
it was shooting fuse when trying to start
installed a ”electric starter kit” with extra relay from a guy in Italy on Ebay.it (see link below)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
better but stil shooting fuses
cleaned starter motor (felt a bit sluggish) and did not shoot as many fuses
however by time it started to shoot fuses more often

Charging battery:

the bike stands in a big garage that are reasonable dry and +20 degree Celsius
been standing for a month
11.5 V on display when I started the GRiSO (drops down about 2 V on display when starting)
connect a CTEK charge for 28 hours (fully charged)

What is happening now:

ignition on 12.3 V on display
initiate the starter button
a pretty big click noise (I think it's the solenoid and not just the starter relay – because holding the hand on the starter motor it feels like a click)
do not crank
display turns off but get on a few seconds later
again possible to push start button – with same result as before – multiple times
intresting is that it does not shoot any fuse


Do anyone have had the same problem and a solution?

In my world it's strange that it does not blow any fuse as before - OR!?

Searching in this forum gives following sorces of possible error:

battery (Yakusa 2 years old – but You never now)
faulty starter contact on the handlebar
bad ground
have to clean and grease every electric connetion
exchange ”starter fix kit” to the simple ”starter interruptus fix” explained in this forum
faulty relay
faulty solenoid
faulty starter motor
faulty contact kickstand
faulty contact freegear
Crappy Guzzi Wiring

I am a Swede living in Portugal so I would like to be able to rely on my GRiSO for nice tours in this beutiful country (that is possible most of the year compared to Sweden).

Love to hear Your initiated thoughts.

You are losing Voltage between the battery and the solenoid, probably in the ignition switch.
The solenoid's two coils will try to draw 60 Amps but there is too much resistance along the way, by the time it gets to the relay its probably less than 9 Volts and it still has to get from relay to solenoid, loses another 1/2 Volt resulting in a solenoid magnet that's too weak to pull the gear into mesh. Once the gear does engage and the main contact closes the current drops to around 10 Amps, but it needs that high inrush current to get it there.

Do this simple test, take a wire and touch it from the battery Positive to the starter solenoid (make sure its in Neutral first) Don't turn the key On just make it crank a few times, you will see how its supposed to engage and turn over.

Read about this elegant solution.
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See how the owner got around the voltage drop problem by providing a direct feed to a new relay he also eliminated the Voltage drop in the wimpy wire Guzzi provided from relay to solenoid.
The resistance is still there in the original components but now the current there is only a tiny fraction of what it previously was so the Voltage drop is almost eliminated, its simple Ohms Law. Of course the wiring of the new fuse and relay needs to be taken into consideration, use at least 16 gauge or the metric equivalent.
You can of course re-wire the existing relay with a direct feed and a new larger wire from relay to solenoid.

Many owners have found a bad connection where the main ground connects to the chassis behind the starter motor. it goes without saying that all battery connections should be cleaned and greased to prevent corrosion or oxidation. Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline is the grease I prefer.

Make the high current battery wiring safe to work on by simply disconnecting the Negative battery lead, then you can accidentally short the positive to ground as much as you like without harming any electrons. Always disconnect negative first and re-connect it last.

I've been having my own starter problems that even transformed into "?runnus interuptus?" while accelerating out of a corner. After I eventually made it home, changed into some clean trousers I found my problem. I'd thought I'd post it here for posterity.

Problem description:
- not starting quite often
- only clicking when trying to start
- randomly resetting the dash sometimes
- Eventually even cutting out while driving (which is not "confidence inspiring"...)

Came home and found a pre-existing problem caused or not properly fixed by previous owner. It seems at some point the thread of the stud bolt providing the mount point for the cover of the starter motor had broken off. Leaving only about 2mm of thread. This meant that the ground wire connector could no longer fit under it.
The previous owner had connected the ground wire on top of the stud bolt (item 8 ), fixating it with item 6, instead of underneath. While this surely fixed it for some rides, the whole fix was apparently executed without lock tight, and therefore slowly rotated loose. Making and braking the connection.

I've cleaned the connectors and reattached everything, which fixed everything for now. I've ordered a new stud bolt, and I'll replace the broken once it is delivered.

Startus interuptus can be caused by a simple loose connection.

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