First oil change

No, not 'Snarky', just worried.

Pete

Uzidzit wrote:

.............ps any bmw car dealer has 10w-60 full syn in a pinch   volkswagen and audi dealers too  it is speced for their turbo cars

Not SG rated... I wouldn't put that stuff in motorcycles.

See it has turned into a fucking oil thread  where the fuck is the moderator to kill this now 

an oil thread I tell you  


Ps I actually spec very specialized lubricants in my real job and you might be surprised as to how much goes into what we pick and why...oddly and it is pretty scarey for me their may be only 1 product suitable period from 1 maker, when you pick one of those you can bet a few years later there will be an ECO and project to find a compatible replacement and months to do the verification and validation on the replacement.

Canyon Carver wrote:

Just had my oil changed at Guzzi-Tech and he said 20-50 Royal Purple was fine. I'm taking his word for it.

That's curious. Do you have an 8V?

Just filled mine with Eni iRide 4T 10W-60 - whatever you do, don't fill more than 3.0 liter. The books says 3.5 liter, but that is way too much. 3.0 liter puts the mark on the dip-stick slightly above the middle between the min/max marks. - don't check the oil with the dip-stick screwed in.. 3.2 liter will put you right to the max mark..

I filled mine with the dipstick all the way in.
And I just checked it again yesterday with the dipstick resting on the threads and it is still a wee bit over full.   

back to the garage.....

Don't run it at the full mark unless you want to risk a lot of oil in the airbox, gummed up TB's and a sticky stepper motor!

Pete

Chriso wrote:

Just filled mine with Eni iRide 4T 10W-60 -  whatever you do, don't fill more than 3.0 liter. The books says 3.5 liter, but that is way too much. 3.0 liter puts the mark on the dip-stick slightly above the middle between the min/max marks. - don't check the oil with the dip-stick screwed in.. 3.2 liter will put you right to the max mark..

Getting ready to do my oil change...so is that 3.0L in total (filter & engine fill-up) or 3.0L for engine, plus the additional oil for filling the new filter for install? This is will be my first oil change on the GRiSO and the fist time I've ever heard of pre-filling the filter before installing it so I want to be sure I do things right. Thanks!

Buy 4 liters (or quarts), fill the oil filter before installing. Fill with the remainder of the first liter, add two more liters, then fill up to mid-dipstick with the final liter.

The purpose of pre-filling the filter is to minimise the time the bearings run *Dry* after the filter is changed. Delivery goes from the sump to the oil pump/s, thence to the filter and finally on past the OPRV to the bearings. If the filter isn't pre filled it increases the time that the engine runs without oil delivery as the filter has to be filled before oil starts being delivered to the bearings. No, it isn't long, (You can usually hear a slight change in engine pitch as the bearings start wedging.) but things happen very fast inside a motor.

Without oil bearing damage begins immediately. It's not an *instant* failure but the damage is cumulative. 90% of all wear in a plain bearing engine happens during the time it takes to reach full operating temperature and 90% of that occurs during the first five seconds after the crank starts spinning. That's the reason it's a very good idea to pre fill filters if possible and a really bad idea to rev the shit out of an engine before its properly warmed up!

Pete

For canucks looking for oils, I get the Motul 10/60 and the Motul Gear 300 from canadasmotorcycle.ca
Sometimes they have deals and shipping is only a couple days all the way to northeen bc from Quebec.

I use the gear 300 in the tranny and Carc and bike seems happy...

Wow, good info.  Just picked up a 2007 GRiSO with 2000 miles, in cherry condition.  I don't believe fluids have been changed so in the process of doing that.  Couldn't find 10w60, but bought full synth 20-50.  Going to use that today as I am anxious to get the fluids changed.  Weather ok right now for the 20-50 range, not to hot, not too cold.  Will change that out in a couple weeks or a month for the 10w60 for the summer.  Bought synthetic for the gearbox and rear drive, but after reading about the poly cage bearings, I am going to find some dino gear oil instead.  Thanks for the help guys!

Pete Roper wrote:

NorthBayGriso wrote:

I just want to make sure the 1 qt [.94L] of Lucas 80w90 heavy gear oil is enough?  The service manuals don't quantify how much I might need [at least that I could find].

Edit: And what is the filter wrench used for this?  I don't have anything that can be used on a recessed filter with such tight access.

Gearbox takes 500ml. Bevelbox? 385ml from memory? So a litre should do it with a bit left over.

Pete

380ml like it matters, I use the Eni Rotra stuff like that sticker stuck on some carcs, its cheap enough and Guzzi specified.
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I seem to recall you specified filling the oil filter and adding 3 litres which should have you bang on the money.
I have always all my biking life primed oil filters, though obviously not to capacity as most fit sideways and that would make a bit of a mess.


So how come nobody uses the recommended Agip Eni iRide Racing 10W60?
I've seen that super expensive Royal Purple mentioned before, actually Amsoil is superior to it, they only do a 10/60 in their dirtbike formula.
Even after boiling and feezing Amsoil maintains its viscosity unlike Royal Purple.


This bloke is nutz and minted via youtube over a million followers.

May I suggest you hold out for the 10W60 rather that the 20W50. It's in the design specs for a reason...

Shit. Just found this thread after having put  Motul Gear 300 75W-90 4 month ago before storing the bike for winter. Should I order non synthetic one and purge the gearbox of my 2007 1100 GRiSO? How screwed am I?

Is it only gearbox or is the carc affected as well?

Is there an easy way to check if I have polymeric bearings?

11ftIbs of torque on the oil filter sounds a bit extreme, usually its a couple flats or a quarter turn, nobody else seems bothered though.

Evilgarfield wrote:

Shit. Just found this thread after having put  Motul Gear 300 75W-90 4 month ago before storing the bike for winter. Should I order non synthetic one and purge the gearbox of my 2007 1100 GRiSO? How screwed am I?

Is it only gearbox or is the carc affected as well?

Is there an easy way to check if I have polymeric bearings?

You aren't screwed. A 75/90 is just fine. I've used it for both gearbox and bevelbox for all CARC bikes since their inception. Never an issue.

For Darkhelmet? The 20/50 won't harm anything. The old pushrod motor will run on old sausage fat quite happily as long as you change it once a week. The 10/60 spec was probably given because it was the most 'Up to date' at the time of manufacture but unlike the 8V it doesn't have to cope with the extreme flash heating the oil experiences in that engine so viscosity issues are less important as are temperature break down points.

Really, don't be throwing good oil away. Leave it in for 10,000km and then change it next time to a 10/60 which will have slightly higher heat protection but also slightly higher frictional power losses, neither of which you would be likely to notice unless you plan on competing in drag races in Death Valley in August!

Buell bloke 11Nm doesn't leak and comes undone ok. Because of where the filter is you need a cup socket anyway, you cant get a firm frip to do a quarter turn by hand.

Although as it is impossible to assemble the filter with a dry thread reducing the torque by 25% to 8Nm would seem reasonable.

just remember to lube the rubber seal before installation learnt once - never forgotten

Pete Roper wrote:

You aren't screwed. A 75/90 is just fine. I've used it for both gearbox and bevelbox for all CARC bikes since their inception. Never an issue.

Ok then based on your experience I don't have to worry about issues wtih polymide cages and fully synthetic oils mentionned by Uzidzit:

Uzidzit wrote:

one note on the gear box oil, the factory specified an odd grade to keep synthetics out of it. The only reason I mention this is I have a failed breva box(bearing cages), that has polymidie bearing cages in it. The synthetic oil used in it destroyed the integrity of the poly bearing cages....Poly bearing cages can be far superior to steel (inferior to bronze)... but they are sensitive to the correct lubricant base.

lcjohnny wrote:

Buell bloke 11Nm doesn't leak and comes undone ok.  
Although as it is impossible to assemble the filter with a dry thread reducing the torque by 25% to 8Nm would seem reasonable.

Just drained the oil and popped the filter off, weren't no 11ftibs of torque or 10Nm's on that one.
Maybe a single extra flat if it was lucky, hand tight with a 1/4'' adaptor more like.
Mind having seen lots of horror stories on here about removal was expecting the worst.
I did wonder why there was a tad of oil on the outside, not really enough to drip.
Maybe if had gone for more than a couple hundred miles in a day the filter could have proved problematic, worked looser
Having just taken ownership (end of october 21) did not want to push my luck before I went over it November - end of February.
Oil filter weren't on there long (UFI), seem to recall bike was serviced late 2019, he only did 2500 miles in 5 years.
Some useful information on the side
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Evilgarfield wrote:

Pete Roper wrote:

You aren't screwed. A 75/90 is just fine. I've used it for both gearbox and bevelbox for all CARC bikes since their inception. Never an issue.

Ok then based on your experience I don't have to worry about issues wtih polymide cages and fully synthetic oils mentionned by Uzidzit:

Uzidzit wrote:

one note on the gear box oil, the factory specified an odd grade to keep synthetics out of it. The only reason I mention this is I have a failed breva box(bearing cages), that has polymidie bearing cages in it. The synthetic oil used in it destroyed the integrity of the poly bearing cages....Poly bearing cages can be far superior to steel (inferior to bronze)... but they are sensitive to the correct lubricant base.

Interesting topic. I found a blurb from SKF here:



It would seem a long life is still possible even considering more "aggressive" lubricants. The problem is we don't really know much about specific materials (or supplier/material changes along the way), or how one full synthetic formulation might be "worse" than another. I don't recall Pete making any mention of this, so I imagine (at least concerning the GRiSO boxes) the problem must be a rare one.

Not enough information for a solid conclusion here. Doubtful it matters, though maybe next change I'll step back from Motul Gear 300 to semi-syn Motylgear.

I know that oil threads get a lot of grief, but for someone who just bought a 2007 GRiSO 1100 with no manuals or history and no experience with Guzzi’s, I greatly appreciate the commentary here. After checking my oil yesterday (hate the black plastic stick!) and seeing how dirty the oil is, I know I need to change the oil (got the bike two days ago). Today, I went to what has been my local Guzzi dealer here in Middle TN and was disappointed. There were no Guzzis there (they’ve even picked up Triumph now, though there were two Aprilia’s there), they had no 10W-60 for sale, had to order the oil filter (“I’ll have to check with the Piaggio rep to see if they are even available currently”), and since mine is a 2007, the service desk said “we don’t really work on anything that old anymore”. . Looks like I’m going to have to rely on you guys a lot!

All the help and advice you need is right here. It may well pay to plan ahead for consumables.

I order 4 or 5 oil filters at the same time as no one near me has any stock - the freight is aggregated across all the filters and they are in my cupboard when needed - last filter means I need to order more. Same with plugs and other consumables like oil. I email subscribe to places that stock what I like/need and wait till they have specials and order when the deal is favourable to me.

An ounce of preventions or is that a gram?

An ounce indeed! I’ll be following that direction (stocking consumables) for sure!

Steedracer wrote:

I know that oil threads get a lot of grief, but for someone who just bought a 2007 GRiSO 1100 with no manuals or history and no experience with Guzzi’s, I greatly appreciate the commentary here.  After checking my oil yesterday (hate the black plastic stick!) and seeing how dirty the oil is, I know I need to change the oil (got the bike two days ago).  Today, I went to what has been my local Guzzi dealer here in Middle TN and was disappointed.  There were no Guzzis there (they’ve even picked up Triumph now, though there were two Aprilia’s there), they had no 10W-60 for sale, had to order the oil filter (“I’ll have to check with the Piaggio rep to see if they are even available currently”), and since mine is a 2007, the service desk said “we don’t really work on anything that old anymore”. . Looks like I’m going to have to rely on you guys a lot!

Luckily both oil as well as filters can be found online. That pesky little plastic oil stick can be made more user-friendly by scraping some plastic off at 1 side, in other words: by filing 1 side flat. If desired, you can then add some extra criss-cross texture on that flat side. That will greatly improve readability.