Stelvio shock on a GRiSO riding impressions

And the Stelvio shock is considerably gentler on the wallet than a Matris (without hydraulic adjuster) at £705!

Yes brendon i am a tight ass!!!

I'm awaiting 115nm spring as we type !. Good news is that without hydraulic adjuster we don't have our knobs sticking out while we're riding; but let's not get back to that old chestnut......

Be interesting to see how the 115nm spring works out. Based on my recent experience the key is to get the sag set correctly, Matris recommend 40-45mm which seems high (I had always thought 30-35mm was optimum) but having now got 42mm the shock seems much better. I got 23mm extra sag from going 4 turns off on the preload. I thought the rising rate was 3;1 so 4 turns (4 x 1mm) would be 12mm but got to 4 turns and checked the sag and it was 42mm so gained 23mm for 4 turns or almost 6mm per turn. See what you get when it arrives and how much preload its comes with and what effect you get from adjusting pre-load.

I can get the overall sag right but means I take out all the preload (lot more than 4 whole turns for me). Also read an article that said you can almost always get the sag set up correct by adjusting preload....but if the way you get that is by unloading the spring way outside normal range; the spring is wrong rate in the first place. Beyond that and at every setting combination it still feels too stiff for me.

BTW you've got me thinking K-tech for front when I go for fork seals/oil next time around.

I would definitely go k-tech. I found excellent.
This is the guy I spoke to;

Michael Hancock
Workshop Technician

K-Tech Suspension Ltd
Units 1 & 2 Marquis Court
Rawdon Business Park
Moira
Derbyshire
DE12 6EJ

e-mail:- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Direct Dial:- 01283 559 004

Ghezzi,

Do you still have some of those items you posted ? I'm interested in the ;

A complete GRiSO shock unmolested.

Bellagio 9.0kg spring FOR YOU SKINNY BLOKES - 188mm free length. will fit straight onto GRiSO shock.

Let me know how much you want for them. Thanks

I am trying to find a cheaper alternative to a new replacement shock for the GRiSO and am looking at the Aprilia Tuono or RSV4 shocks. Initially thinking that Aprilia was the parent Co when the GRiSO was designed & that parts may have been common to several models.

Do you have any thoughts, comments, ideas ?
Sidrat suggested that the width of the spring on the GRiSO limits the choice of shock. I just noticed that the bottom mount is an eye on the aprilia & a yoke on the GRiSO shock but wondering if the bottom mount can be interchanged.

Thanks
Tim

Ron (Waterbottle) purchased an Ohlins off an RSV4 Tuono Factory 1100 (2015?)
He changed the bottom clevis, standard Ohlin part. Go for 330mm eye-to-eye.
From memory he had to make 4 washers/spacers, 2 each for top and bottom mounts to stop sideways movement.
He would give you details. This would be my choice.

I started with a stock GRiSO shock, spent $700 to have it revalved and resprung but the total cost versus improvement was a poor investment.
Only good use for GRiSO shock is for a Bellagio coz its longer and has stronger spring & adj comp damping.

Price for a quality no frills shock starts around $1100 over here. I bought the Matris R 2nd hand still in the box for that price.
It has hi & lo-speed comp damping, rebound, hydraulic pre-load and height adjustment.

Hydraulic pre-load is a wank unless you do 50/50 with/without pillion riding.

Postage for both to UK might be AUD$100, but the spring would be the only benefit if you're 55kg (?) ringing wet.
Spring free, shock $100.

If cost is a problem, put up with crap for longer and save more money to buy quality.

Cheers, Wayne

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:48 am    Topic: Re: Shock exchange
Wayne,

Thanks ! That's given me some good info to work with. Another rider on V11LeMans also has a Tuono & directed me towards the Aprilia forum where there is lots of trading of shocks apparently.

On fbay I have seen an Ohlins unit come up now & then for around $500US. Which is within my budget.

I'll chat with Waterbottle & see if he posted fitting the Ohlins to his race bike.


I should have asked for your advice on the forum where this information can be shared with other members.
Do you mind if I post it there ?

Cheers
Tim

Post away, Ron and I aren't into keeping secrets.

Cheers

FYI this is the same eye-to-eye as the stock GRiSO:

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guzziownr wrote:

FYI this is the same eye-to-eye as the stock GRiSO:

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My experience is with Bellagio - 310 mm, hydraulic pre-load and rebound adj only.
GRiSO is 318mm (or 12.5") - compression and rebound damping adjusters, plus threaded adj for pre-load.

By that link, Breva/Sport/Norge is also 318mm - but lacks compression adjuster.
This to me would be a backward step, no advantage in ride height or set up verses convenience of spring adjustment, which is too soft for most applications.

Stelvio shock, although I've never had one in hand, is reported to be 330mm - slightly heavier spring, hydraulic pre-load, rebound only. (no compression adjuster)
There are advantages here for some GRiSO riders, longer shock increases ride height/ground clearance/turn in speed etc, firmer spring better for heavier riders, and it may have more travel (not confirmed) which would add to the feeling of greater compliance.

The only disadvantage to improving ride quality and handling is, the further you go today means the further you will want to enhance all future motorcycles, as anything less will be unacceptable.
After owning a well sorted Ducati Hypermotard which has longer travel than sports bikes, I've maxed out my Bellagio. If I bought a brand new GRiSO today, it would cost me $50k by the time I was satisfied.
Me thinks Bella will suffice to the grave.

That is the problem Ghezzi, my last bike before the GRiSO had fantastic suspension and handling stright out of the box, trying to emulate that is an expensive thing to do and not achieveable given the other characteristics of the GRiSO.

Installed Stelvio shock, seems to have solved most of my problems, with a small outlay of cash, now just riding the wheels off of it :-)

Too little too late.
When I was young, extreme suspension modification was 50w fork oil and a couple of coins to pre-load the stock fork springs. Wind the rear pre-load up to max and ride like a lunatic, all on spaghetti chassis, skinny tyres and no brakes.

Now it has taken me most of a lifetime to learn and understand (a little of) what works and how to achieve it, and then build it. Except I'm now too old and crotchety to be bothered (or skilled) to do it justice, making the whole project pointless/fruitless.

Exercise still worth pursuing Wayne, others now benefit from your experience.

Thought I'd be dead long before 50, be 60 next month.
Health is on the upside now, just need time & opportunity to keep my throttle hand flexible.
Means I'm getting rusty riding wise, and too chicken to take the big risks anymore.

sidrat wrote:

*****UPDATE*****
Ok, so i put almost 300 miles on it now and made a change.

Previously if you have read the thread i ran GRiSO with the standard shock, with no static sag and the front forks dropped to the 5th Ring. It steered lovely, its what makes it such an underrated star. Problems like ground clearance soft rear spring and slapping bars made me put the Stelvio shock in, with settings outlined previously.

It solved most of the problems, but i don't like the steering, that natural neutral steering has gone and instead it pushes the front tyre and takes more effort, the rest is great, but i really wanted the steering sensation back. Today raised the front end from 5 rings showing back to 2 rings and low and behold the steering is back to its wondrous self.

So now i now have a GRiSO that is simply an inch higher at the back and 3/4 inch higher at the front, the steering is great, ground clearance endless, no saggy back end with the stringer spring and still no flapping of the bars when pushed, i am very happy. As you can see from the piccy it just looks like an ordinary GRiSO but on tip toes.

Its also back to the original riding position too and you are not pushed into the tank.

I will now make up something to increase the length of the side stand, as the picture doesn't show how much it now leans over!


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Let's make the point of the situation.
First you lifted the back. Then you lifted the front by the same amount.
Overall you feel the bike rides better than stock. What do you think is the reason for that?

1. Better (more suitable) shock?
2. higher center of gravity?
3. Altered quotes such as wheelbase etc?
4. Other...?

Ok, so the forks were originally on the 5th ring, i raised them back up after putting the Stelvio shock in so that the steering rake would be the same/similar to beforehand. I did try it with the forks still dropped through to the 5th ring but i felt it pushed the front too much. As i said this could also be because of the tyres (they are almost due for replacement) but i did do 300 miles just to make sure.

I wanted the following improvements

1/ More ground clearance - Wearing out boots, side stand sometimes pegs
2/ Had no static sag as the spring was too soft and it would also would top out
3/ Wanted more shock stroke
4/ Wanted a heavier weight spring as the shock bottoms out
5/ Wanted a cheap solution as i didn't want to invest in an expensive shock
6/ Thought about a heavier weight spring but that would still not solve all of my problems

This is what i got
1/ More ground clearence - Check
2/ Able to set 25mm of static sage - Check
3/ The shock has a slighty longer stroke so i get more travel
4/ Doesnt bottom out, great with my daughter as pillion
5/ Still tops out a bit over big bumps, but i could dial that out, but will live with it instead
6/ Leans over a bit further on the sidestand
7/ And the biggest improvement is the bars no longer flap about when pushing on. I am guessing this is because the spring is not oscelating out of control and relying on over damping to try and cure that
8/ It plugs stright in
9/ It was in my budget
10/ The ground is furher away when you stop!
11/ I find the standard stelvio damping position and pre-load works well.

Am i happy, yes very much so. I ride it pretty hard at times so it suits me perfectly, if you are looking after the same results i would recommend it. I am not the only one who has done this change, i read other peoples input before i jumped and they all recommeneded it. I would not go back.

Hi Sidrat,
I don't have a GRiSO but trying to figure out whether this could work for my B11 too.
I am looking for more effortless steering and agility in tight bends.
I understand that just rising the back is not the way to go isn't?

voulga77 wrote:

Hi Sidrat,
I don't have a GRiSO but trying to figure out whether this could work for my B11 too.
I am looking for more effortless steering and agility in tight bends.
I understand that just rising the back is not the way to go isn't?

Hi If you have a Bellagio then Wayne "Ghezzi" is your man. Not having ridden one i could only guess and that is an expensive game :-)

Nope, it's a Breva (like Norge and 1200s)

voulga77 wrote:

Nope, it's a Breva (like Norge and 1200s)

Ok, so my original caveat stands in that i have not ridden one or even looked closely at one!

However if you want to speed up your steering then ether raising the rear or lowering the front will have the same effect of reducing the rake and speeding up the steering.

I am guessing that the rear is not height adjustable so your initial change would be to drop the yokes throught the forks. (the top of the forks would stick up higher though the yokes) I would try this in small adjustments 5mm at a time and see what improvements or not you get.

voulga77 wrote:

Hi Sidrat,
I don't have a GRiSO but trying to figure out whether this could work for my B11 too.
I am looking for more effortless steering and agility in tight bends.
I understand that just rising the back is not the way to go isn't?

The other consideraton is a change in tyres. What are you currently running? There are some touring or sprts touring tyres that are simply not designed to steer very quickly, they are longer lasting and safe and secure. You might want to consider a more triangular and more sporty front tyre.

Voulga, do you have the same forks as the 1200 Sport? If so, I may be able to provide some assistance.

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:

Voulga, do you have the same forks as the 1200 Sport? If so, I may be able to provide some assistance.

Yes, I've installed the 1200s fork, revalved. Stock springs.



Some people with 1200s have installed the stelvio shock with good results. However they all had previously shimmed the fork springs by 10-15mm, thus lifting the front too.
This make me think that the longer stelvio shock just restores the "level" of the bike to "stock".

If I am not wrong Wayne did the same on hig Bellagio (correct me if I am wrong). He shimmed the fork springs and then he mounted the 9mm longer Matris shock.

So I'll put the question on the table again. Where the benefit comes from?

Posting here to continue the thread !....Previously had a Matris K45 with spring changed to 115 n/mm after initial one delivered at 135 n/mm (I'm 75 kg).....I've optimised the Matris for setup plus found same as Sidrat with adjustable length adding 1cm I get much better cornering and dynamics - but it's still a bit stiff and on removing it clearly still isn't whacking the buffer......so bought cheap second hand Stelvio Sachs and put a 7inch 100n/MM spring on it & fitted it tonight..

Learned
1. dead easy to get Matris out from below with minimal jiggling and 'just' removed wheel plus exhaust
2. Major PITA getting Stelvio in as it's different shape body (more at top & longer spring) & adjuster is on opposite side to Matris gold reservoir. However it's just a jiggle and jiggle game until it somehow drops in but I also removed hugger and passenger footpeg on LHS to make it easier
3. Stelvio much easier to spanner top bolt as it doesn't have reservoir in way (and I''ve optimised the tools with ratchet ring spanners)

Road testing commences tomorrow

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WARNING the The early (non NTX) Stelvio has a softer spring - i measured it at 8.4 Kg/mm (it may have been 9.5 when new )
If you have one of these you will need to get an 11Kg/mm (110 Nm/mm) spring eg from Brook suspension Brook Suspension Shock Spring

I presume the GRiSO Swing-Arm sits higher (nearer horizontal) than the Stelvio's, when unloaded?
If not, doesn't fitting a longer Shock push the Arm further down than the Stelvio's, meaning the Driveshaft UJs will be put through too high an angle?
It's not advised to run the Stelvio in Gear on the Centre-Stand even, because of the angle the UJs are at with the suspension unloaded.