OMG I Was at the BMW Dealer

To check out the finest automated Bavarian offerings. Why? I'm at a stage in life when I think electronic nannies like ABS, ESC etc. might help me better survive my declining state of coordination and reaction time. I know: why go for the sagging jugs when I have the perkies? Help me rationalize my affection for the electronified 2016 R1200RS.

I want one too. Go get it and tell us about it. Please.

Eric

Saggy tits vs pert tits - need you think further. Ok let me put it another way - teutonic reliability(?) or an Italian mistress that has the hots...

well consider this about teutonic reliability

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BMW  has had the most recalls in the past 15years than any other MFG..,,,,, just saying

keenerkeen07 wrote:

well consider this about teutonic reliability

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BMW  has had the most recalls in the past 15years than any other MFG..,,,,, just saying  

Yes I'll take my wheels bolted to steel, not aluminum thank you. Did not know of the recall stigma with these machines. But really why the slow adoption of the most primitive nanny by MG? That's my point . . . Trolling for the GRiSO esthetic + switchable nanny supports.

Fissionmaker wrote:

keenerkeen07 wrote:

well consider this about teutonic reliability

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BMW  has had the most recalls in the past 15years than any other MFG..,,,,, just saying  

Yes I'll take my wheels bolted to steel, not aluminum thank you. Did not know of the recall stigma with these machines. But really why the slow adoption of the most primitive nanny by MG? That's my point . . . Trolling for the GRiSO esthetic + switchable nanny supports.

I am sure you will see a little more from Guzzi re the GRiSO in the future , the Cali has a few more for sure, thing is the GRiSO is old as far as model , to bring in tech is tough on a machine that started with little to none in the first place..there are those that care little for rider aids and i am one of them ..i do understand the advantages and respect the tech around them but there is nothing like riding by the seat of your pants:)  still ... works as well
old school is my forte i guess..........................
cheers
Keener

Why don´t buy a BMW?

Last year, middle of july. Sitting with some friends on the Gavia-Pass (Alps) for about 55 minutes. 136 motorcycles arrived in this time. 102 of them where Beemers.

A BMW is a great bike with all this new technology - but everyone owns one. It´s like Harley - you have to modify your bike, to find it in the crowd.

Grandpa said always to me: Boy you shouldn´t stay beside the crowd. But you should be a face in those crowd. That´s one of the reasons why i love my G.


Sven

Anyone who buys a BMW is dead to me. Dead, I say!
(Wrends garment and howls at the sky)

LOL @ Beetle^^^^^^^. Crazy Osstralian I say!

Anyway...even if beemers were reliable, they're boring as shit (I'm talking boxer mills).
I'll never own one...
Oh, and yeah. Way overpriced.

In Australia, Harley Ducati and BMW offer free roadside assist, guess which one of the three I tow the most. Best job I had was retrieving an 800GS from Birsdsville, that's 3,200km return journey with close to 600km of dirt road and one dead skippy.

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The new water cooled twin is a hoot. The shock recall was pretty scary but I read that there were only two actual failures amongst all sold. Anyway I sold my K1200 about two months ago and I do miss the motor on that thing. I don't miss the vague feeling front end, engine heat, plastic fuel quick disconnects and many recalls. Service bulletins including; air box replacement,  fuel strip replacement, the list goes on. Over engineered some say, I just think BMW engineers are too stubborn to admit they made a mistake the first time so they re-engineer a work around rather than fix what went wrong in the first place. Still miss that motor though...

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The BMW fascination with electronics complexity would likely be overtaken by Mercedes-Benz if Daimler got into the motorbike biz. But back on point: sounds like there may be some auto safety features in GRiSO's future. That's good news if true. Would the Norton Commando 961 Sport in black/gold livery have a soul-stirring effect on par with the GRiSO? On paper it appears to.

I've owned air-head and oil-head BMW's and generally liked the bikes...especially an R1150RS I kept the longest. Now, there are too many electronic nannies on board, dealers I've had didn't seem to know much about the bikes and lastly, the pricing is out of line with the competition. I'll stick with the relatively nanny-free Moto Guzzi's, but am anxious to see what they do with the newer models.

BTW...If there was a Norton dealer within 200 miles, I'd be checking out the 961 for sure.

Good luck with your decision.

Some people really do not like BMW .........

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ghezzi wrote:

............. Best job I had was retrieving an 800GS from Birsdsville.........

That sucks because that GS line uses the rotax mill which is a good unit...
Then again, it's the electronics that fails on those so you're back to square one.

Thanks for the insights. As this is a GRiSO gathering place, I don't want to talk BMW as much as my interest in keeping my soulful GRiSO until the ABS + switchable ESC edition arrives. I think BMWs 'rain' ride mode is a great idea however and part of the allure of the brand. And my interest in shopping it to begin with.

It's OK to bring other brands to debate...
Lots of folks here have other bikes sitting next to their Grisos, like the new CB, Aprilias, Ducs, Triumphs and bimers too.
It's just that some of us are not impressed with BMW but in the end it shouldn't matter to you.
If you want an RS, just get it and that's that.
When I got my first GRiSO, my best friend told me to get a beamer, they're better he said.
I said yeah sure. lol The end drive shit the bed the day he picked it up (bike was used but still).
Later on we took a trip in the Mountains and his fuel pump quit, ruining our trip. lol again.

I do wonder with all the BMW's on the road that they are bound to have more failures. Percentage wise, how much more than say Moto Guzzi?

That said, I do think that they have embraced high tech for the sake of high tech. But, it does appear that most of this high tech will be on most bikes in the near future and BMW will have an excellent history to fall back on knowing all the failure modes. That should put them in the cat bird seat. In theory.

Back in their airhead days I did possess a desire to own one but couldn't afford one. Now, less desire but still can't afford one! Would like to try out the R9T though. That said, I think I made the right decision to get the CB1100 as a barn mate to the GRiSO. Retro, and I bet better made than the BMW.

But life is short, if the BMW calls to you, go for it. You may regret getting it, but I bet you'll regret it more if you don't. You can always sell it if turns out to be a big turd.

rboe, your post got me thinking...
Like you said, BMW produces a lot more bikes than Guzzi so it's bound to get more bad apples based on numbers alone.
The percentage of bad apples per bike produced would define the real reliability issues.
I'm willing to say that Guzzi and BMW are neck to neck but I give the edge to Mandelo Del Lario due to lower cost of repair for one and lower retail price of their bike for second.
I mean, a decked out Stevio NTX retails at $14K or so right now. The GSA is about $20K and counting. Outch!

My friend with his POS 2004 RT had a bunch of problems so he bought a new GSA in 2010 that now has 36K trouble free miles.
The dreaded end drive failure doesn't apply to late models it seems so it's a good thing.
I think people are still stuck on those bad issues with BMW but for the asking price of their bike, they should be as reliable as an anvil, simple as that.

For what they ask for them, whether it's fair or not, the expectation is that you get a superb machine with reliability through the roof. People keep buying them in droves so I can only assume that at some level they work for a lot of folks.

Then again, people believed the world was flat for a very long time.

So what I'm inferring from all your input is the German machine's nannies are not justified based on reliability concerns with the mechanicals, yes? A great ESC is worthless if your final drive craps out. My premise (faulty perhaps) is that a nannie is a good investment in survivability in everyday riding and I want MG to recognize and offer that option in GRiSO format.

I've owned a 1982 R100RS, a 1991 R100R, a 1995 R1100RSL and finally a 2001 R1100S all of which had their good points and bad.  

Best of the lot was the R1100S but I sold it with the coming prospect of having to disassemble the machine from the engine rear back just to lubricate the clutch splines, a required maintanance.  A big job made worse by having to heat all major hardware just so to relieve the locking compound.  I'm not mechanically lazy as I have the 1200 Sport in pieces now but a design requiring that level of work for "routine" maintenance is just wrong.

I had no reliability issues but 2 bikes, the R100R and the R1100RSL had steering bias issues that required pressure on the left grip to avoid veering onto the r/h shoulder of the road.  On a trip that was a nuisance and why I sold them.

Otoh all were reliable, relatively simple to maintain ( except that clutch spline thing) and good rides.  The later models showed a trend to be more complex than necessary as in removing the throttle and master cylinder assembly which was a puzzle the first time done.  So much to undo just to remove those components.  

Late models seem to be designed for an owner maybe to do oil changes and not much more.  Dealers must love the complexity ensuring a steady workload for their techs.

Performance was mediocure ( except the R1100S, it was nice).  Somehow the bikes never felt as throttle responsive as other machines in the garage.

So been there done that and very unlikely to do so ever again.  For me the costs outweighed the benefits.

I had BMW's superbike of the 70's the R90s, used it as a winter hack, it was a good while ago I have to say but I couldn't see what all the fuss was about, other than a nice pair of dell'ortos but I also had a 1200 shovel which was a living entity in comparison

BM's are awesome!

Tee-Hee