Hello from Toronto, Canada

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Hello,

Just joining GRiSO ghetto from the great white north. Bought the 2013 GRiSO last April after trading in my Ducati Moster. Best decision ever made!!!

So, I'm debating between the Mistral Black Tatinium conical exhaust and the Arrow Special Parts version in stainless steel. Any suggestions and/ or pro and cons between the two wouldbe greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Welcome!

In my not so humble pretentious pontificating opinion, they'll both work equally well. I'd suggest there's diddley-squat betwixt 'em. It's a matter of aesthetics.

..oh, and welcome.

Funny, another switch from a Ducati.
Welcome Sir.

Ohh and don't mind Beetle, he talks funny like that...

Thank you for the warm welcome. No problem with Beetle being upfront. He tells it as it is..... Very refreshing!

Maximus GRiSO wrote:

So, I'm debating between the Mistral Black Tatinium conical exhaust and the Arrow Special Parts version in stainless steel. Any suggestions and/ or pro and cons between the two would be greatly appreciated.

:

Hello Maximus, and welcome. I'm not new to Guzzi's but new to the GRiSO- have a 2015 in the Garage that's got all of 250 miles on the odometer. Our winter here in PA has been bad enough to keep me off the streets since November. So in the meanwhile I've been infusing a bit of cash into the American economy. I picked up a Zard exhaust for it (Ok, Italian economy then), but to accommodate some bags without clearance concerns I have this one coming from GT:

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Here's how it sounds:



Maybe a little on the louder side, always hard to say based on a video. It seems to have its own unique tone, with a sort of nice rasp to it. I'm guessing the Zard will be a bit deeper in tone, and not quite as loud.  

This is the actual one that I'll be getting. It's a stainless unit, been polished though it is available in satin finish for less $. It has a non-removable db-killer installed (actually it is removable but you'd have to grind down the weld that retains it inside the megaphone). Of no importance to me as I wouldn't ride it without a db-killer in anyway.  I think Todd Egan at GT has considered the possibility of making this exhaust available with a removable db-killer, but nothing definite on that. I also had the impression that a db-killer of smaller diameter could be fitted (more restrictive, and should be quieter). The db-killer featured here is 1 and 3/4 inches in diameter.

This particular exhaust prices at $609, optioned with the db-killer and the polishing. Bare bones it's $459 (satin, no db-killer). I'll report on it once I have it installed for a bit. Just looking at it, I wonder if the map Beetle's been working on for the Agostini reverse cone meg would be useable in this application. Beetle, do you think I am off base here?

.

Not at all. The Low Mistral map we've been working on will be the base of the Ago pipe, and should work in the Arrow as well as others like the GPR as well. The Zard is a different beast altogether.

Welcome!

Welcome!

Thank you Ronbo10.

Here to in Toronto, we have had the coldest February in years with lots of snow and salt still on the ground. It will be a while before the GRiSO can come out this spring.
The unit sounds great and looks refined. At this time I'm leaning and partial towards the Mistral Black tatanium silencer only because I think the black unit would fit better with the look of the Black Devil.

Question for Beetle?

I'm assuming that the bike will need to be re-mapped once I install the new pipe?

Thanks again.

beetle wrote:

Not at all. The Low Mistral map we've been working on will be the base of the Ago pipe, and should work in the Arrow as well as others like the GPR as well. The Zard is a different beast altogether.

Ok-good, Beetle. You in a way answered a question I've had about maps. As principal map developer, I've wondered how much difference you have seen between the maps for different exhausts. These exhausts (I presume) all flow better than stock, but as you and Pete have discovered (or already knew), it's about more than just flow. That you have found the Zard to be different from others follows my intuition (as feeble as it is in these things) because the Zard looks different. It's a bit bigger, longer, has more internal volume than many of the others.

I imagine exhaust slip-on design comes about by a number of means. Small cottage industry companies may use well established prinicples in their designs but don't have the resources to go through multiple iterations, especially for a product that may sell in a smaller quantity than you can count on your fingers. My guess is a lot of TLAR (That Looks About Right) goes into the design of many of these exhausts.  A company like Zard, on the other hand, which is a large company relative to its peers, may use a more empirical method because (a) they have the resources to do it, and (b) a market presence and hence potential demand that could justify it. Whether this results in a higher performance product, I don't know. I do believe that an exhaust that isn't developed using empirical means has a higher likelihood of giving unsatisfactory results. Case in point, I've read along with many/most of you of Pete's debacle with a GT right side exit exhaust that certainly looked the business, but performed very poorly. A case where aesthetics trumped performance, on a product that made it to market before it was ready. Don't know if anyone ever got one of those to fuel/run properly, though at best it still would have been way too loud for my tastes.

The GT meg-muffler I'm to get here shortly on the other hand looks like it probably will be a decent exhaust (speculation here) because it isn't, or at least doesn't appear to be, a whole lot different from other similar exhausts that evidently give decent results. Time will tell, so wish me luck!

beetle wrote:

The Zard is a different beast altogether.

Go team Zard!

ronbo10 wrote:

Ok-good, Beetle. You in a way answered a question I've had about maps. As principal map developer, I've wondered how much difference you have seen between the maps for different exhausts.

Quite a bit actually. Length, diameter, type of dB killer and shape all have effect on exhaust speed and pressure, wave timing and magnitude.

Quote :

These exhausts (I presume) all flow better than stock, but as you and Pete have discovered (or already knew), it's about more than just flow. That you have found the Zard to be different from others follows my intuition (as feeble as it is in these things) because the Zard looks different. It's a bit bigger, longer, has more internal volume than many of the others.

You've hit the nail squarely on the head. Of all the variables, length seems to be the one that has the most positive effect. Look at the Mistral Hi-Pipe. If there's a better exhaust for the GRiSO, I've not heard of it.

Quote :

I imagine exhaust slip-on design comes about by a number of means. Small cottage industry companies may use well established prinicples in their designs but don't have the resources to go through multiple iterations, especially for a product that may sell in a smaller quantity than you can count on your fingers. My guess is a lot of TLAR (That Looks About Right) goes into the design of many of these exhausts.  A company like Zard, on the other hand, which is a large company relative to its peers, may use a more empirical method because (a) they have the resources to do it, and (b) a market presence and hence potential demand that could justify it. Whether this results in a higher performance product, I don't know. I do believe that an exhaust that isn't developed using empirical means has a higher likelihood of giving unsatisfactory results. Case in point, I've read along with many/most of you of Pete's debacle with a GT right side exit exhaust that certainly looked the business, but performed very poorly. A case where aesthetics trumped performance, on a product that made it to market before it was ready. Don't know if anyone ever got one of those to fuel/run properly, though at best it still would have been way too loud for my tastes.

I think I'm in love with you.  

Being fairest of them all does not equate to performance. The 8V engine detests a very open pipe. Those who build pipes for prettiness and loudness only will not a happy GRiSO make.

Quote :

The GT meg-muffler I'm to get here shortly on the other hand looks like it probably will be a decent exhaust (speculation here) because it isn't, or at least doesn't appear to be, a whole lot different from other similar exhausts that evidently give decent results. Time will tell, so wish me luck!

Oz1200Guzzi has a GT exhaust in his 2V Sport, and we've managed to get to work pretty well.

Pretty Well? Effen awesome!

And as has been pointed out ad-nauseam all engines are not created equal. The pipe is only one design factor. One has to look at the entire system from air filter to exhaust can and appreciate the differences that will effect the way the engine pumps. The Guzzi 8V is not *Special* but it is significantly different to most other designs currently on the market. What works well with a Capponord will not work well with a GRiSO and visa-versa.

Pete

Welcome Maximus, good to hear of another GRiSO in TO. Hope you'll join the Ontario Guzzi Riders group if you haven't already. We'll have a stand at the Toronto Motorcycle show at the International Centre weekend after next. March 20/21. Come see us there.

Greetings Maximus.
Beetle is not the only loquaciously and pompously grandiloquent wordsmith bequeathing The Entire World with his opinion around here.
He just happens to have a 1200.

DM

If you go with the Arrow pipe, as I did.  Your best bet is to buy it from GRS in Perugia, Italy.  Contact Signore Enzo Berni and he will work out the shipping details.  Since you won't have to pay the Euro VAT, the quoted price (w/VAT) covers the shipping to North America.  I don't think you'll find a better price.

Here is a link to the proper section of the GRS website.

It is available in either polished (lucidata) or brushed (satinata) stainless.  Make sure you specify the correct finish.  I opted for the satinata and it looks great on the SE

Good ridings to you Maximus and welcome to our Ghriestto.

Thank you for all the suggestions and advice. Just yesterday I ordered the exhaust directly from Mistral in Italy. Alex was very helpful and efficient. The exhaust is already on its way. I purchased the black tatinium conical silencer with the polished end cap. It should arrive in 10 days. Once mounted on the GRiSO I will post pictures.
The snow is slowly melting and the temperatures are now in +c (1-5) so hopefully it will warm up enough to ride somewhat comfortably without chilling conditions.